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Podcast Interview - "Chinese Medicine" with Waveny Holland, Nini Tolson & Daniel Tolson

Podcast Interview – “Chinese Medicine” with Waveny Holland, Nini Tolson & Daniel Tolson

Waveny Holland holds a Bachelor of Health Science in Acupuncture with a Masters of Traditional Chinese Medicine and is a current member of the Chinese Medicine Reference Group.

And today, she is going to show you how eastern medicine can help increase self-esteem and stop self-sabotage.

Learn More About Waveny: https://www.acupuncture.org.au

Learn More about Daniel Tolson & Nini Tolson: https://mentaldetox.com.au/stop-self-sabotage/

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Podcast Transcript

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Daniel Tolson (00:02):

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. Our guest today holds a Bachelor of Health Science in Acupuncture with a Masters of Traditional Chinese Medicine and she’s a current member of the Chinese Medicine Reference Group. And today, she’s going to show you how Eastern medicine can help increase self-esteem and stop self-sabotage. Please put your hands together and help us welcome to the Mental Detox Podcast, our good friend, Waveny Holland. Welcome.

Waveny Holland (00:36):

Thank you very much. That’s a very nice and warm welcome. I’m very pleased to be here.

Daniel Tolson (00:41):

We can see you’ve done a lot of study and a lot of research into this field in that way. Both curious, how does an Australian woman find herself doing Chinese medicine?

Waveny Holland (00:53):

I had my first acupuncture treatment on the 14th of November, 1980. And I got off the table and went, I need to know this. I come from a Western medical background, so I’m a registered nurse and midwife, child health nurse. I’ve done counseling psychology. So these were all extra bows that I added to my quiver that eventually ended up being what I am today as a Chinese medicine practitioner, I think. But really and truly I’ve found after coming from a Western medical background into Chinese medicine, nothing beats Chinese medicine and the whole of body effect that it gives you with every single treatment. It, it’s just the best. You can’t beat it.

Daniel Tolson (01:31):

So what was happening for you at that time before you had your first treatment?

Waveny Holland (01:36):

I was actually pregnant. I was about 16, 17 weeks pregnant and there are hormones that cause through the body, apart from the reproductive ones relaxing in an inhibin. They actually stretched ligaments and tendons to enable easier delivery when it comes time to give birth. But they, they start activating in the body from a very, from very early on in the pregnancy. And so ligaments and tendons become stretched. And I’d just wash my hands. And just, just the gentle tip over the washbasin. My back went crack and I was completely bent over and my husband was moving the, around like the chest piece. I couldn’t straighten up. And my GP and her husband had just been and studied acupuncture in China and, and they said, I’ll do acupuncture. I want, I don’t care what you do, I just need to be up. Right. Cause I couldn’t, it was difficult to breathe and grow with pregnancy and everything. So, and I’ve got off the table in my was upright. I was still in pain but upright. And I went, yeah, I need to know this. And so that’s how it started

Daniel Tolson (02:30):

In, in and after you had your first treatment, what happened in

Waveny Holland (02:35):

I had to seek any treatment and then they actually did Aqua puncher cause they inject a vitamin B 12 into my acupuncture points, which is what we call point injection therapy. And and it worked. But eventually the B12 stung more than the NGO acupuncture. Cause what we do is we use, I mean, and this is, this is where the controversy comes in. It’s actually a dry needle. We’re not necessarily, unless you’re doing point injection, you’re not putting anything in. And that’s why a lot of practitioners around the world and in Australia in particular, it’s kind of even more serious because Chinese medicine is now a registered profession. It was rigid registered on the 1st of July, 2012. And I’m an acupuncturist, which means that I’ve got a minimum four year bachelor’s degree with a thousand hours of clinical practice to practice my medicine. There are other registered professions who can go and do a weekend course.

Waveny Holland (03:29):

In fact, you and Nina can go and do and of course in dry needling tomorrow morning, Saturday and then go and stick pins in people tomorrow afternoon and say you do acupuncture or you can call it dry needling because they’re terms that aren’t protected under the national laws. So lots of people can go and do it layer and, and the national laws designed to protect the public from poorly trained practitioners. But it’s actually not doing that because you can say do acupuncture or dry needling, but not be an acupuncturist and you’re perfectly find a practice with just a weekend course.

Daniel Tolson (04:03):

It is. You mentioned before your first experiences with pregnancy that you’re also talking about a client story. Somebody who was in a bad relationship, they weren’t able to fall pregnant. And then after 11 years of trying, leaving the partner, they actually fell pregnant with a new partner immediately,

Waveny Holland (04:21):

Immediately. And they’ve had two little children’s since then. And, and, and it’s clear to me that the mental and emotional strain of being in a relationship that wasn’t the right relationship had a massive impact on it shaped badly, wanted a child. And, and, and as much as she cared about him, I think she, they weren’t suited. There wasn’t very much support from him. Even when they did try IVF, he didn’t go to the appointments with her or anything. It was almost like, well, you want the baby off. You go and do it. I’ll support you, but I’m not going to be there. And that, that’s a very difficult thing because especially through IVF, there’s so many hormones that are being injected into these women or applied and, and it’s really difficult to maintain that emotional stability if you haven’t got a person who’s with you actually and supporting you all the way through it.

Waveny Holland (05:11):

It’s, it’s a tough Hoss because those hormones are crazy anyway. And it’s, you’re being pumped with them even more. So when she relaxed and, and the, the marriage broke down, it was eventual conclusion. I think they were fairly amicable, but it, you know, they just decided that they weren’t in love anymore. And she found a new man in her life and, and pretty much within ’em they’re married now actually went to their wedding, which was really nice. They were really happy that I would come to that. They, they had two little babies, so it’s just perfect. It’s just lovely and without any issue, nobody if they just did it naturally. So yeah,

Daniel Tolson (05:50):

That’s phenomenal. And we were talking offline about mind, body, and spirit. So with your sort of Chinese medicine, you also said when they use Chinese medicine, there’s also an improvement in your mental, emotional and spiritual bodies as well. Can you talk us through that?

Waveny Holland (06:06):

Sure. it, regardless of what we’re trading people, it’s very rare. I have about 60% of my patients who actually fall asleep. They’re so relaxed. It, it really is timeout for that short period of that appointment. And they wake up renewed because it comes to mind. They’re relaxed, they know that they’re also getting treatment. And this isn’t, this isn’t having a go at Western medicine necessarily, but it’s very rare that you go to a doctor and you actually feel better when you leave because they’ll either write a prescription, which means you have to go and fill that out so you’re not getting treatment there or they’re sending you off for referrals to, for blood tests or x-rays or scans or whatever it is. And again, you still don’t even necessarily have a diagnosis. Whereas when you come to a Chinese medicine practitioner, you have someone who listens to you because our appointments on the whole at least half an hour, but I have an hour for my appointments, which means that you get that therapeutic benefit of talking and explaining your fears, explaining what you’re worried about or do you know what you can’t control or any kind of overwhelmness any of that kind of thing.

Waveny Holland (07:10):

It’s, it’s coming out during that interview without even having done a treatment. So that therapeutic chat is extraordinarily powerful in Cumming people’s minds and, and we never dismiss it. We don’t ever sort of say, Oh, it’s just in your head or you know, that kind of thing because it’s not, if people coming out with that kind of stuff, it clearly is important to them. Even though it might seem trivial to other people, this is really important. Otherwise they wouldn’t have brought it up. And when you engage at that level, they actually feel confident, secure, and they feel safe because they know that you’re on their side. You’re on the a team to make them feel better from a physical point of view and that mind and emotion is calmed at the same time?

Daniel Tolson (07:48):

Well, I like what you say they in when we teach people how to sell, what you say, the first 40% of the time of the sales relationship should just be building trust and rapport. And what we find is if you just listen in with intensity, you’re taking notes, you’re letting them talk, you don’t interrupt. Eventually they have that Freudian slip and they tell you that thing that’s holding them back that they would not dare tell anybody else see how therapeutic it is for them. They’re like, Oh my gosh. Yup. You said that 2020 before

Waveny Holland (08:22):

And, and when they say it out loud [inaudible] the world hasn’t crashed around them. They still may and still talking and still thinking. I think, Oh, okay. That was as bad as I thought it was going to be. I let it out and nothing terrible has happened. So that’s also really cathartic for them too. I think

Daniel Tolson (08:40):

In what you say at this stage here, what we want to do in the relationship is create an unconditional positive regard. And this is where there is no judgment or no criticism. So when they say it and they don’t get criticized, they open up and they keep

Waveny Holland (08:56):

Letting it roll out by the end of the conversation, most of the times they’re very clear on what they need to do. Yes, they do need some additional advice, but now they’re clear on what they need to do and who are we to croissant criticize and judge anyway. Really it’s just people have their own things that they need to make up their own minds. They are giving them back their control. And, and when we first, when you first invited me to this, I said that a lot of people often choose the wrong goal and, and it’s all immediately self-sabotaging because what they really want and what they really need are quite different. So they think they want that, but they actually need that. So the goal is wrong and it was never going to necessarily achieve what they wanted because they don’t know what they want necessarily. They think they know, but or external influences.

Daniel Tolson (09:43):

We met a gentleman years ago and he said, I want to own high rise towers and I want to have a Ferrari and when I get that then I’ll be happy. I said to him, just out of curiosity, how long do you think it’s going to take you to achieve that goal? And he said, probably about 30 years. And I said, well, could you be happy now before you get that? And he looked at me as if I was from out a spice. Yup. I said, what you’ve just said to me linguistically, you’re going to delay all of your happiness until you achieve that thing 20 or to 30 years down the track. Would you just be happy? You know? And he had an [inaudible]. So the goal should have been happiness and peace of mind to start with. Yup. You know, I said to ninny yesterday, you know, we get people on the planet, they think they’re going to be happy when they get a yacht, but they can’t even be happy with a lollipop. Yes, we know. It doesn’t matter what they get. If they can’t be happy with that lollipop, they’ll never be happy with anything.

Waveny Holland (10:39):

And truly a Ute as much more serviceable and functional than the Ferrari. Yeah. So we, I think you share a lot of your good insights. So what kind of practical ideas that you can share with our friends and our followers to use Chinese medicine to increase self is theme and style. Well, Chinese medicine is beautiful in that it can maintain a person’s wellness or wellbeing. We work in wellness or wellbeing rather than illness. Western medicine only works in illness. You would never go to a doctor and say keep me well, but lots of people and because they don’t know, they don’t know about keeping people well. They can only do something for you if you’ve got something wrong, hence why they sent you for examiner. But x-rays and blood tests and the light. Whereas with Chinese medicine, it’s just such an extraordinary, powerful tool.

Waveny Holland (11:34):

Feeling people’s pulses and looking at their tongue and looking at the way they present. And you can see that certain things are slightly not, you know, it’s not fine tuned, like taking a car for a tune up. It’s a very similar thing. You can fine tune their gut, for example, because they might have a bit of bloatedness or whatever. And with that whole yin-yang balanced that we have in body, all of the organs, and when I talk about the organs, if I say heart, we’re talking about the energy of the heart or the energy of display, more the energy, the lungs, not the anatomical organ, we recognize them or West, but they’re arranged in a union partnerships or heart energy, which is emotions and spirit and all of that kind of stuff is the yin of the small intestine, which is a yang of the same energy.

Waveny Holland (12:14):

So if you’ve got some kind of a mental and emotional disruption going, you’re not going to feel as though you have an appetite. You’re not going to want to wait. Your gut is going to be in turmoil because that’s the connection that we have in Chinese medicine. Just the same as lung and large intestine. It’s grief and sadness. So the emotions associated with that, and it’s really difficult if you can’t take a deep breath because you’re really, really sad, well then large intestines going to be compromised in a similar way. And again it’s more bloatedness you might get constipation, whatever it is, it will have that physical manifestation if there’s any mental and emotional stuff happening. So the more stuck you are in your emotions and, and the, the mental way you approach life, the more likely it’s going to have a physical manifestation in your body.

Waveny Holland (12:56):

And when we do treatments, it’s trading mind, body, spirit because of the connection between heart and small intestine for example, or liver and gallbladder, which is that anger and you know, frustration of not getting what you need. And that translates to headaches and, and you know, dry, gritty, Burney eyes and even ringing and buzzing knees. All of those physical, mental manifestations can be an direct consequence of mental and emotional disharmony within the body. So it just happens. Yeah, it’s great. It’s just, it’s, it’s sensational. I’ve been doing this for 26 years. I’m still awed by it

Daniel Tolson (13:30):

Every day. And you think, wow, it’s still exciting. It’s just amazing. We want to learn more about you and your organization. The website is www.acupuncture.org did I you

Waveny Holland (13:49):

That’s right. That’s right. That’s the Australian acupuncture and Chinese medicine association. And I’m currently the chair on the national board. And we are the peak association. We represent about 50% of all of the registered Chinese medicine practitioners in Australia and there. And when you go to our website, you can click click on the practitioners search button and that will give you a page where you can either put in your postcode or a name if you kind of just know the first name of the person and it’ll show you their practice details and contact details. So to make an appointment. And you know, you’ll be safe then in the knowledge that that practitioner is fully trained and fully registered and fully insured and all of the things that we need to be to be able to practice legally.

Daniel Tolson (14:34):

Wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. It’s greatly appreciated and that we’ll touch base again soon. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Enjoy your day. Thank you. Bye.