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Are you a business person who feels,
1. You have to say “everything is fine” when it’s not?
2. You smile when you wish you were crying?
3. You would love to ask for help but too afraid?

Well, you are not alone.

There’s often an unspoken pressure in business to make things appear perfect and trouble-free…especially when they aren’t.

When things don’t go as planned and the pressure starts to mount, it can feel like the walls are closing in as you face “The Dark Side of Business”.

It’s no surprise that mental health issues for business owners are on the rise and it is literally killing them.

Right now in Australia, our experts are predicting an increase in suicide rates of 40% and these decisions to end our lives are often made within 15 minutes of a stressful event.

It’s time we talk about these matters.

Join my good friends, Adebayo Adeleke and Robert Brus, and I as we explore “The Dark Side Of Business” and how to find a little more light each day!

To learn more about Adebayo Adeleke visit: https://www.goallin.com.au

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Podcast Transcript

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Speaker 2: 00:00:04 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Win Sales Now podcast and our guest today is a combat veteran leading the United States army into battle for more than 20 years. I mentor and guide to African immigrants and he holds a doctorate of business administration specializing in supply chain management. Today he’s going to show us the dock side of business and address how business people are suffering behind a facade of fake social media posts and images. Ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome our good friend at a bio and a lucky welcome.

Speaker 1: 00:00:44 I hear everyone nice now. Awesome. I’m awesome. I’m stoked to be here. I’m really stoked to be here.

Speaker 2: 00:00:52 Well, that’s great to say that I’m also joined by my co host, Robert Brus from go all in, who’s also ex-military, jumping out of the back of airplanes, a wild man. As with Zeiss now at Avaya, you’re the expert here and your considered as one of the most influential Nigerian business speakers in America right now, and based on our conversations last week, you said there’s a dark side of business.

Speaker 1: 00:01:22 What does that night, so there’s this dark side of business that, uh, the current business disposition is not exposing the ups and downs, the valleys, the valleys, the sometimes, you know, depending on how you, you know, you, you craft your business, the valleys might be deeper than you think, you know, and mostly the world want to see the Hills. They want to see the top of the mountains, but nobody wants to talk to you about the valleys. And that Valley is where character is born. It’s like a crucible whereby you go through and reform yourself. You know, and I spoke with you, I will last chatted about a social media influence whereby people present themselves to be the successful business men or women on social media, but yet they never really explained to you of the dark, the dark side, the dark moments. Uh, one of the gentleman that I interviewed on my podcast, actually very successful young man, he had a [inaudible] business.

Speaker 1: 00:02:28 Uh, you know, it should be there that valued at the height of it, about $3 million. It started from selling to share that from in his apartment. You know, but in the process of, in the height of it door, you know, he experienced a lot of dark moments and the kind of type away from the business a little bit. And I actually relaunched the business now. So during the podcast to kind of explain those dark moments and how it was reformed renos, dark women. And naturally most people wouldn’t believe this. It told me is actually he was glad went through those dark moments because the lesson he learned through those dark moments, it won’t have learned our lesson if the con in the business actually continued to be successful. So, you know, there’s always that said, uh, you know, disappointment is always a blessing in disguise.

Speaker 1: 00:03:14 This actually is well fun because during that it was able to find out like, wow, there’s a lot I did not know about business. You failed in certain areas. And through that process it was a learning moment for him. He learned and then was able to propel themselves forward. But this dark side, you know, most people don’t want to do it. They don’t want to go into it, you know, they don’t want to address it. They just want to see the shining and the shiny part of life. But I, I hate, I hate to break it to them. It doesn’t work that way. And oftentimes a lot of people stay in the dark before they see the light. They stay in the dark for a long time to stay in the dark. And actually the character of the business, the value system or the piece of the culture of the business is being actually being built or in attack moments.

Speaker 1: 00:03:56 And, but I’m, I’m worried about the narrative that we’re selling to the younger generation about the upcoming business man, that everything is going to be rosy. It’s going to be, you know, everything’s all going to be fine. You know, duty as your sloppy is on. It’s, you portray yourself to be our people and yet you’re, you’re so sad. You know, and I’m worried, I’m worried because of the, the instruction and the, what we’re trying to tell the upcoming generation that, you know, you don’t have to go through hard life. Everything’s all going to be fine. And that’s what is important. I mean, I, I sought to faith, I mean, you do your business on social media and I took, probably Rob does the same thing as well, but you see all these pictures, you wonder, wow, what do these people ever go to? Doc Ruben’s lizard will ever go through the dark times.

Speaker 1: 00:04:38 So for me, um, I, you know, I sprint to you that, you know, our greatness is in our imperfection. Our greatness is not your professional. Most my imperfection is fun in our dark moments, you know, and I believe to embrace those dark moments in prison, our imperfection is our way to greatness. And most people don’t realize it. By the time they realize it, it’s too late in the game and then it’s all, you know, uh, I wish I was, I wish I was kind of deal. But that’s just my point of view of what I see lately. And I haven’t talked to a lot of business leaders. You know, they’ll show you their movements, but they’re not going to do show you their movements and privately. But I’m not going to to talk about a problem, you know, publicly, I don’t know why for Saturdays I believe if cache or trials are publicly should be able to show your low days as well. So

Speaker 3: 00:05:25 yeah, that’s a a really important perspective to share. And I think it’s the quite right about the narrative. One of the, one of the questions that I get asked often about all the interviews that I’ve done, and I’ve done a couple of hundred interviews now and people will say, what’s the biggest lesson that you’ve learnt about hearing all of these go all in stories. And it’s about, you know, doing whatever it takes to succeed. The thing that I discovered is there’s a difference between resilience and tolerance. And if you look at an entrepreneur or a business owner, they put their own capital at risk. They put their time at risk, they put their money at risk, they families everything in order to succeed, to make life better. They’re trying to get to the other side of it. And I really believe that the, one of the biggest lessons that I’ve learned in just talking to so many people about doing whatever it takes to succeed is your ability to tolerate the hard times builds resilience.

Speaker 3: 00:06:18 I think there’s a difference between being able to tolerate it and then being resilient about something. And an example is if you’ve ever been through a lawsuit, if you’ve ever had a lawyer come off to you in business for some reason, yeah, it’s a very, very unpleasant experience. But then when you go and lawyer up the lawyers like, yeah, don’t worry about it. This is what I do all day every day. They have so much tolerance to it that they’ve built this level of resilience that you just don’t have. And I think the difference between really super successful entrepreneurs and just wantrepreneurs that are wanting to get there and wanting to get on the other side is they haven’t tolerated enough pain to build the level of resilience they need to break through to the other side. And that’s something, as you say, there’s never ever spoken about. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 00:07:05 In, in Taiwan at the moment, uh, we have what’s called a strawberry generation. And I heard this and I thought, what is that? What is the strawberry generation? And so I started to dig a little bit deeper and my generation United way, and coming up to way of forties our parents went through those hard times. They went living in hassles with tin roofs. They lived with roads that were still might’ve do, that were getting up in the morning that we’re going barefoot, picking rice in the rice fields before there was machinery. And what happened, and I’d worked so hard for so long, seven days a week, 365 days a year. And over time they amassed wealth. And the parents said, we don’t want our children to go through what we went through. So now they’ve started to spoonfeed them and now they’re in their forties they starting at these new businesses and their little cafes on the corner. And there’s cafe culture everywhere. And they’ve never seen a hard time in their life. And so what the interesting thing about a strawberry is as soon as you touch a strawberry skin bruises, and this is what’s happening in Taiwan right now, they get their first obstacle and they brewers, and this is the strawberry generation.

Speaker 1: 00:08:17 Uh, I’ve ever thought of it that way actually. It’s quite profound, uh, because it’s, it’s on his mind boggling, you know, and I as a parent as well, I go, I see it as well, try to instill the values that I got from my parents in my kids. And I realized that if I start doing it into this culture, I’m probably be, uh, probably the child protective services would come after me because I’m being brutally, you know, um, uh, manhandling my kids, what’s going on is with you. And it worries me and some kind of as the older generation, there are certain value system we need to pass onto the current generation. But it seemed as if everything that we went through is not, uh, is not in, uh, it’s not in accordance with the way they live life in its current generation. So they, you bet through, uh, then you start asking yourself, I mean, if what I went through is not, is not normal, then what is, what is the new norm?

Speaker 1: 00:09:15 How can I impact this current generation? Because our only draw from what I know, I can give you what I don’t have. You know, that’s impossible. I couldn’t give you what I don’t know. And what I have is born out of pain, toy lifestyle, you know, into, you know what some of them don’t want to do. The one little hard work I’d work is like, it’s a foreign concept. You know, artwork is actually a foreign concept. That’s why, you know, I was reading an article that about 60 or 70% of American youth are no qualified to join the military. I was like, wow, this is, this is crazy. Because nobody wants to do the hard work. Nobody wants to go through that pain as creating pain too. But I know I was still people. You know, I, when I was in Okinawa, Japan, I was stationed over there.

Speaker 1: 00:10:00 There is a shock mountain that we used to run every morning. Knows that I’m monitoring is all about after mile long. But I’ll tell you what, it was the most painful experience ever. But at the end of it all, when I get to the top of the mountain, I have this nice view, nice view of Erico, islands, I mean the breeze and everything is so rejuvenating, you know? But I always keep in mind, I look the, regardless of whatever pain I’m going to, at least when I get to the top, I have the pleasure to see the, this awesome view. And I think if we can, if we can tell this generation that, look, the pain is temporal, the pain is always temporary, but the game is always prominent, you know? And uh, but it’s always kind of theoretical in nature that what does that mean? No pain is temporal and gain is Panadeine.

Speaker 1: 00:10:45 It’s like speaking in some, in some philosopher philosophical stuff, you know? But you know, I, I try as much as possible to the arena. I mean I deal with young adults or young leaders a lot and you know, you only can do the best and kind of mentor them and teach them like, this is what I did, you know, I understand is what is going on your disposition. But this is what I went through and this hour I played the game. You know, you can do something different, but I cannot guarantee the outcome of whatever you’re going through. But this one I’ve been through, I can tell you to the time that this house is going to look like.

Speaker 3: 00:11:19 Well, I wanted to ask you my, there’s so much, uh, information out there online where I don’t have to make the same mistakes in my business as the person over here that is going to teach me how to do it. So they always feels like there’s a shortcut to getting somewhere because somebody already walked that path there before you and I, and I’m interested to hear your thoughts about that is in my view that I think that that’s what’s perpetuating people not wanting to dive and, and to have a go at something and realize that it’s actually really hard to build a business. It’s actually really hard to get customers because they think that if they pay somebody to actually go and show them the why, that that’s going to be a shortcut to it. But there are no shortcuts to success. And I’m interesting interested in just to hear your feedback on that.

Speaker 1: 00:12:13 You know, Rob, I’ve heard this, uh, that, you know, there are books, there are this thing, you know, something for dummies in how to do all these and everything is just for me. I believe this was just to prepare your mind for things to come. It’s just to prepare your mind. I mean, whatever it’s going to be, it’s going to be, the pain they have is to go, I mean, uh, different errors, different challenges, different problem. The problem is still relatively the same, but you still have to go through it regardless. But just to prepare your mind and when you go through this, this is what we expect. You know, uh, you know, you can say because somebody has gone through this path before that you’re not going to go through it. There are certain Rite of passage you have to go trim business. You know, that’s some, I went, I was consultant with a, uh, a business owner in Nigeria and I mean, they were telling me, they were telling him that if you haven’t been arrested by a police or being arrives by the government for some, some kind of fraudulent dealings, that you’re not really, you’ve not really arrived as a businessman.

Speaker 1: 00:13:13 So I haven’t got a real business yet. Exactly. You know, you know, I joined it with other people’s experience, uh, and understanding, uh, what they went through, understanding what they went through. It gives you some kind of knowledge base that when you go through yours, you have a place to draw strength from. It’s not for you that you’re not going to go through it. Absolutely not. You know, a different fee to preach that you know is all going to be good, but you’re going to pass through certain things and I believe you to be resilient. Like you mentioned, a resiliency is built by sharing experiences from those that I’ve gone through. I heard of you. That’s how you build resiliency. Those deals will come. I mean, they will definitely come and you can’t miss it. I mean, it’s just like, I just like growing as a baby in the groin from, you know, a baby to a toddler to uh, you know, to attend to a teenager.

Speaker 1: 00:14:07 I mean, those growing pains are going to be because I have, I have two, I have two teenagers, right? Uh, one went through the teenage days because that one went to, I do. That doesn’t mean that the one following is not going to go through. Absolutely. But I’ve learned, I know how to manage them. So, and that’s what experiences are for previous experiences are for you to manage and to build resilience. And also we’re also in [inaudible] to build tolerance as well because a, so that you don’t go crazy during your experience. That’s what I see from my point of view. And if anyone thinks that as a short court man [inaudible] for a long haul.

Speaker 3: 00:14:44 Well, I think the, the vulnerability is often something that we’re not taught to demonstrate. And one of the things that I learned from one

Speaker 2: 00:14:52 of my mentors, he said, as a salesperson, as a business person, you’ve always got to be on the up and up and up. Everything’s got to be okay. Everything’s got to be rosy. Business has gotta be better this year than it was last year. My sales are higher than last year. Marine comes up. And I’d heard my mentor say that many times. So based on what a mentor told me, I thought maybe I shouldn’t show vulnerability over the years what happened, I’d created such a squeaky claim perception that people just assumed everything happened easily and naturally for me. And it started to create a distance between me and my ideal customer. And another mentor said to me, he said, Daniel, he said, what you have to master is being within arm’s reach of somebody. If you’re too good, if you’re too clean, if everything was too easy, they can’t reach out and grab you.

Speaker 2: 00:15:41 And that’s what they need. And our, I, it was 2014, uh, I was sitting in my apartment building in the basement in my car and I was biting my steering wheel. I wasn’t hungry, I was angry. And see what I know about anger is the best way to get anger out of the body is to hit something or somebody, but you can’t hit somebody or you bite something, you chew into a steak. But there I am biting my steering wheel. I didn’t know what else to do. And then I was bawling my eyes out and I was sitting in the garage and I wasn’t dealing with it and I wasn’t talking to anybody about it. So some mentor ship went in the wrong direction. Some beliefs weren’t working for me and all suffering in silence. Yeah. Second problem that arose from that. I didn’t manage my emotions correctly, but I didn’t discuss this with my customers because I thought if I bring that up and I haven’t addressed it, then I’m going to feel like a failure or I’m going to feel like a false prophet. And so I know it’s been dangerous, but teaching vulnerability I think is going to be key for the, for this generation to learn to express it without wallowing in it, to be able to express it and deal with it.

Speaker 1: 00:16:54 Exactly. And I also believe that it’s more relatable. People will understand that, okay, this man is going through the same thing I’m going through. It’s just like marriage, you know, you think, wow, this marriage is so perfect. And then you not hearing stories like, Oh wow, this is us, this guy’s got us. It’s not what I think it is. It’s just like me, you know? And then you realize that you’re not the only one, uh, in this, this game of marriage. And the same thing with business. And I think when people understand that you’re just human, you’re just like human, your, you have the same full ability. Like, just like every other humans, you know, and you, you fall and you pick yourself up on rise. I think they’ll, there’ll be, there’ll be, you’d be more believable. And whenever you sell to them they will believe you and they will buy from you because they realize that you’re just a regular guy just like me, you know, and the movement too, we create this false pretense that uh, this is light, this is what life’s supposed to be.

Speaker 1: 00:17:47 And I see it every day. Even when I see with a lot of my friends as well, you know, you have this false pretends. And I was like, wow, this is quite interesting. And it shows level of ingenuity, you know, people can limit. So in some culture they can, they can smell be somebody being phony, you know, they be like that [inaudible] that guy’s real, you know, because something, things will not add up. You know, what you presented to the world and what is going on in the back. We’re not, we’re not Jai, there is not, there’s not going to be aligning. And people would definitely know. And then you run a, tell them yourself, right on, do for them to find out what’s the, for them to find out. It’s a different ballgame. You just like, you know, people in the tabloids, you write out column out and address.

Speaker 1: 00:18:24 It adds on. Then before people dig it out loud because he was caught. That’s what he said. I’m sorry. No, you know, have kind of a thing and your believability and credibility. I just gone to shit for the lack of man, I hope I can use such whatever your podcast, a hundred, a hundred percent, most way it’s the better. So, so you know, I’m in business. Your credibility matters a lot, you know, I believe to for people to reach you that this is who he is. This is what he says and he is what he is. You know, that kind of a thing. So, uh, I’m you absolutely right. Teaching vulnerability is one of the key thing that you can’t find those in any business school. You can’t find those in any curriculum. You have to learn it. These are the things, it’s part of the emotional intelligence deal.

Speaker 1: 00:19:03 Like, look, this is who I am as a person. You know, I’m not, I’m not a superstar. I’m just a regular guy that did the best I could and my own little way I’m look kind of found me along the way, you know, not kind of a thing. And I can tell you the same thing if I tell you that you live real live as I leave mine, I will tell you you absolutely wrong because I was lucky in some, some instances and you know, I found all kinds of luck along the way and I find myself in the right path. You some, some other people live the life like I did, they might not find the same outcome, you know, so, but I’ll tell them to, you know, uh, to understand, you know, their vulnerability as well and embrace it. Don’t shy away from it. Embrace it. Don’t, don’t try to be funny. Just embrace it. I mean, you say don’t wallow in it. I’m weak in certain areas. I understand my weakness, their weakness for a certain reason and they’re still being a weakness, but I’m not going to capitalize on it. I’ll move onto my strength and I’ll do more with my show and I’ve done wallowing in my week.

Speaker 3: 00:20:00 Yes, that’s beautifully, beautifully articulated and beautifully said. This value bombs dropping everywhere there. That’s awesome. Mike, thank you for sharing that. I wanted to share in the spirit of sharing Daniel shared one. I wanted to share one as well and one of my experiences more recently in fact has been around, uh, around that topic of resilience. The topic of resilience when things go wrong gives you a little bit more foresight. Now I think it’s really easy in life to, to look back in hindsight at something and say, well, I should have done it like that. But it’s very, very hard to have foresight in your life and particularly in your business. I’ve always struggled with that to understand where you are in relation to where you want to be and then make the right moves at the right time. You know, it’s easy to look back and go, damn, I should have done this or I should’ve done that.

Speaker 3: 00:20:50 And recently for me, what I discovered was if I don’t take things too seriously when they go wrong, I find that I can be more vulnerable. And it’s like, you know, the world’s not gonna end. Nobody died. Customers didn’t die. I didn’t die. My business is still here. I made some mistakes. It’s not such a big deal. And what I discovered was if I use a little bit of humor and I make fun of myself a little bit, um, and it helps me to be more vulnerable and to share it. And what it does is it kind of disarms that, Ooh, something went wrong in your business when you’re telling somebody. So being vulnerable doesn’t always mean going over and crying in your pillow and having somebody come over to you, say, Hey, what’s wrong mate? You know, are you all right? Do you need a hug?

Speaker 3: 00:21:31 No, I don’t need a hug. I’m all right. And what I discovered is the way I kind of make fun of myself is business is a game of snakes and ladders. Remember you played snakes and ladders when you were a kid. You roll the dice and you get on the ladder and you, you go up and then you go across a little bit, you get on another ladder, you go up and walk. I’m beating everybody. And um, you know, all I’ve got to do is roll a three until I win and I roll or two and I end up on the snake and I’m all the way back down to the bottom. That happened to me recently in my, in my business and I think business is a game of snakes and ladders. And what happened to me is I got down the bottom and I was, fell like I was right back at square one and I was like, man, I wish the entrepreneurial lessons would come easier.

Speaker 3: 00:22:10 Well, it wasn’t that hard, but I wish they’d come damn faster. And then I had people saying, well, what’s wrong? Everything called rod, it’s snakes and ladders. You were doing so well and now you’re not doing well. What’s, what’s wrong? And that gave me the opportunity to open up and share a little bit and I did it kind of ingest of myself. And what that did was kind of, it allowed me to communicate what was wrong and it allowed me to kind of disarm the conversation away from it. Oh my God, is everything go gay? Are you going to be able to pay the bills and eat? Yeah, I’m um, I’m good at kind of got rid of that. But you know, I really do wish entrepreneurial lessons came easier and they were shorter. And if you listening to this or watching this, just remember that business and life in general is a game of snakes and ladders. There’s ups and downs all the time. And how you deal with those and how you react to those things is a test of your character on a day to day basis. Yes.

Speaker 1: 00:23:04 And, and you build those characters when no one is watching. Ah, because that’s when, during those dark days, that’s when you build those character because they’re trying times. They try and deals will come. Oh, Oh yes, they will.

Speaker 3: 00:23:18 Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 00:23:20 When you, when you were talking about, um, snakes and ladders, I thought you might’ve been at my wedding in listening to my wedding speech. I said at my wedding speech and now I’ve got a few strange looks. I say that marriage is like a game of Dungeons and dragons. Fly a few dragons before you get the princess. This is true. This is true. Absolutely. Say that’s life, right? Can get there to a like a 1980s board game. I’m just going to share I a screenshot. He had gentlemen and just have a look at this guy. Wait, can actually measure resiliency. You know, I’ll use these technologies and these behavioral assessments and we can start to measure resiliency. And so people who are struggling in business today can have a scientific look at how they’re approaching certain areas of their business game. So we can have a look at things like resiliency way of people a high and way people are low.

Speaker 2: 00:24:13 We can also have a look at the futuristic thinking. So what you’re talking about there before Rob, people looking to the future, we can actually measure that. And so if somebody is not utilizing that, it’s a learnable skill. And that’s what I believe people have to know. It’s, it’s not something that’s inborn into you. It’s a learnable skill and if you stopped to learn on it, you can look out into the future and make better decisions tonight because the mind works in two directions. It works based on your goals in the direction that you’re going. And it also looks to the past and says wherever I’ve been, and then you make a decision right now. But you have to be able to look further out into the future. And in today’s world, based on my research, is there’s a couple of different perspectives of time and most people who get paid day to day, their time perspective is day to day.

Speaker 2: 00:25:08 So they actually don’t look at into the future any further than 5:00 PM when they’re going to get paid. People who get paid week to week have a time perspective of a week. People who get paid month to month have a time perspective of a month. So when we look at these challenges in society, it can also be how we structure it based on time perspectives. And on the studies in Harvard university by Dr. Richard Banfield, he said the biggest predictor of success in the American society is a long time perspective. And it’s being able to look at these things and uh, I know Rob you say over and over, it’s just going to be a blip on the rider, but if you can’t look out there far enough in the future, you can’t understand that today. It’s just a blip.

Speaker 3: 00:25:55 Mm, absolutely. I would, I would echo that so much. And I had a, a very wise, uh, colleague of mine is one of my good friends here in Sydney. He, he’s a, he’s from a Chinese background, so he’s a first generation or was he like me from, uh, from China end? Yeah. Michael. Yeah. And so, well, when I first kicked off this business, Michael would ask me, what are you doing? What’s happening? And I’m like, I’m making hay while the sun shines. And I didn’t realize I was playing snakes and ladders then. And, you know, I thought that I was going to offload this business and get out of it and sell it and make it a big chunk of change and do that in a short space of time. And he was like, what are you talking about man? Why don’t you, why don’t you build up a company that you’re not, your family, is proud of, not your community’s proud of, build a company that you’ll country that your country is proud of.

Speaker 3: 00:26:45 And he was saying to me, in Chinese culture, that’s what they, that’s what they try and do. And they try and build a company that’s a Centurion company that’s gonna last a hundred years. And I thought he was crazy and I thought, he’s giving me all these crazy Chinese Proverbs while we’re eating noodles in Hurstville over lunch. And I’m like, I’m rolling my eyes at him, dude. You know, I’m just going to sell the company and I’m going to cash it out and I’m going to do, I’m going to sit over there on my stump and count my cash. And he’s like, nah, man, dude, it’s all last a hundred years. And over a period of probably a week or so, I realized he was right and it completely changed my perspective on everything. When I look at something in the, in the long, long term, my decision making process changed. I slowed everything down and I wasn’t so stressed. Actually that was the best part about it.

Speaker 2: 00:27:32 It’s ensuring business in June at the bio when we spoke the other day, you mentioned one of the greatest joys in your life was to have a life of service. Yes, and I understood the concept, but I’ve never experienced this in my life. I came, I come from a family of farmers. I come from a family of entrepreneurs and we’ve always been carving out our own way for our own little dentist, Alpine, little censuring companies. But you mentioned this life of service and when you started to mention this life of service living for something bigger than yourself, doing something bigger than your city, your state doing something for your country. I noticed that you started to light up, but I don’t understand this life of service because you’ve led people in the battle for the past 20 years. What is this life of service that is so important to you?

Speaker 1: 00:28:32 It is something that I did stat on that I want to start a libel service. It’s something I realized along the way. Uh, I shared a little bit about my background growing up. I grew up in Nigeria. My travel days in Nigeria actually very funny cause I’m writing my, my book or my journey and the chapter that I’m on is like growing up in Nigeria, I, I’m, you know, dish of governor’s leadership was, it was an afterthought during those times because we’re on the, I lived on other military Jean during the days. So the structure and the democratic values or those things were not as distance. And also when I migrated to United States and I started hearing all these foreign words of duty on our country, you know, all these surgeries and everything’s like whatever man, this is all these Western, you know, Jack guns that it kind of, you know, kind of brainwashed, you know, and then you just [inaudible] system and what not.

Speaker 1: 00:29:30 So I joined the military. I mean I joined military, actually. I joined the military to go to school so that they can pay for my school fees. I mean, that was, I joined when I say be all you can be, you know, you go, you join, then they’ll pay my school. Why not? But when I joined, I fell in love with the people. It was like a melting pot of different cultures. People come from different walks of life. You wake up like 5:00 AM in the morning and you’re so happy to run. You know, I was like, wow, this is, this is a very strange world, you know? And then the more I get into it, the more I’d be, you know, we can look after each other. I go to the clubs, you know, we’d go out, we always stood together, you know, and I’ve never experienced such, you know, I’ve never experienced such, I mean it’s not my factual of where I came from that I know was never around people that are genuinely clear about you.

Speaker 1: 00:30:19 And then as time went on, as I progressed in my career and then started leading soldiers in combat, you know, you realize that it’s not about you no more is about people left and right of you. You know, when the bullets start flying, uh, it’s not even about a country is about boot. All of you trying to get home alive, you know, and that strikes a different bond. You know, we work together, you pull people, uh, that are and me fired. Then you realize that, why do you do this? It does an inmate thing. It doesn’t, somebody say, I’ll go pull that guy. It’s good. You’re getting shut out. You feel like this is the right thing to do. You know? And, uh, so the level of service, you know, when I told her about my experience when I was in Afghanistan, we are going for a patrol and I mean that the place we’ll go was dangerous.

Speaker 1: 00:31:08 And I told all my guys, you know, just go call your family before we get on the road. And I realized I was so concerned about orders actually calling me a family that I forgot to call by the realize, wow, I have changed. I came in one teenager, selfish bastard into one that actually cares about impact of these people. I mean impact in his own world. How is people feel? I mean, how people feel and about what they are doing. And more importantly, I fit into these dynamics. The old changing world dynamics, you know, at this level service is very profound. It’s probably the noblest call anyone can, can, can, can, I mean anyone can kind of you too, you know, uh, all if you, I mean beside the military, the firemen, the police, the teachers, you know, there’s something that you believe what deadly you not getting paid.

Speaker 1: 00:32:06 Like what you put in and what you get is completely different than I’ve days or night, you know, and that is service, you know, getting paid your worth. That’s pretty much it. But you enjoy doing it because it is the right thing to do. And when you serve orders, just people don’t know this. People are low. We all, we all work from our position of being self centered. Every, I mean businesses forget, I mean forget profit and loss. Trying to do, do you know, nonprofit stuff. But the baseline is we all self centered. We all selfish to the core. It does the wheel of the world. But when you work in something that is bigger than yourself is quite profound. You know, you, you don’t, when you serve others, you serve yourself. And people don’t understand that. I, if I cybers if I, if I use my time to, you know, to help develop orders, I don’t have time to develop myself.

Speaker 1: 00:33:01 No, it doesn’t work that way. Where you serve all those, you serve yourself and people do realize, you don’t realize that, wow, I’ve actually gained something out of this. But when we start looking at Israel itself, center will never actually receive or imbibed a spirit of service. And um, it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to me is the best thing that ever happened to me. And as the greatest thing I geo coming out of the United States army is the fact that I can see things began to myself. And to be honest with you from here or now after retirement, I don’t see myself doing anything else to have to serve orders. It does. I mean I find myself serving in my local church, in my community here and I’ll continue to serve until the time calls I can serve no more because it is the, you share your joy is kind of compounded when you see all the succeeding.

Speaker 1: 00:33:49 It’s not about use of, because when you succeed, when you succeed, you succeed as well. It’s kind of a penalty that is a pump petition and combination in mathematics. You know, and I, it’s kind of compounding interest sort of. People do understand that and I, you know, I do, I still don’t get it. White people don’t understand that if you serve orders, you’re serving yourself, you know, uh, a gentleman tow showed me a story of a young guy, young man back in the days in the 60s actually help these young folks, uh, to gain skill level of skill, level of work. You know, carpenters, photographers, mechanics and whatnot. He never really spent so much time on himself. It did. Later on when those guys actually graduated and they became skilled man. Uh, so what happened down the line is that this man got holder in his fifties and sixties and couldn’t do much to begin, but the folks that he has helped in back in the days actually came back to his rescue.

Speaker 1: 00:34:44 Like, what are you doing though? You know, I’m retired. You know, I don’t do much right now. They give him something contract that he doesn’t have to do much. Imagine that he has gained so much now in his later years than ever again. When I was younger. These thing, these stories, I this just want adult trillions of stories out there. How people have been able to achieve in greater Heights by helping others. It’s quite difficult, honestly, as a businessman to realize that kind of mindset. Uh, but I’ve enjoyed it. I lived it. Uh, and I, I think one day, I mean, Rob, I’d be able to chime in a little bit, but I mean, I just, I don’t know how much I can explain the life of service. It just like

Speaker 3: 00:35:26 I would, I would add to that by saying, you know, the definition for me is related to responsibility. Um, because in the military you get a level of responsibility that you just don’t get outside in the civilian world. I mean, that’s, you know, not a hundred percent true, but the vast majority of, of what you, uh, have to do as a civilian doesn’t involve people living or dying. It involves getting a job done and getting a project finished, getting something completed, and helping people to do things. And, and I think that when you put in a position where other people’s lives are at stake and you’ve got to look after them and you’ve got to make good decisions, because if you don’t make good decisions, really bad things are gonna happen. Everything in the military, I kind of like to say is exactly the same as what it is in the civilian world.

Speaker 3: 00:36:14 It’s just amplified by a factor of about a thousand. Um, if something goes wrong in the military, somebody might lose their life. If something goes wrong in business, nobody’s going to lose. They lost. Someone might lose their job at worst. So it’s just the amplification of it. You know, I can remember a time as a, as a young man, once I got qualified, um, and when I was first in the, in the Royal Australian Navy, you as if you’ve ever seen a Navy ship go out of a Harbor or come back into a Harbor, sailors stand on the outside of the ship, in their uniform and you’re going to go downstairs and get on your uniform. You get your hat, you get, you do it all. It’s cold enough in the Australian Navy it’s called specials. Specials is what we call special. We’ll see Julian close up is what they say. And you go to your part of the ship and you go and do your thing and you stand there and as you come into Sydney Harbor, you have all of the, um, all of the civilian boats come by and different times of years, different people coming past and they come right up close to you and say hello to you.

Speaker 3: 00:37:08 I wave to way back to them and things like that. And they’re like, hello sailor. And they’re doing all of these sorts of things. It’s a really kind of empowering experience and a similar comparison to that is as you put a uniform on, I kind of think that you’re playing for your country. I feel like when I put that army uniform on or that Navy uniform on, I felt like I was representing the country because the job that was given to me had a lot of responsibility associated with it. I had other people that I was responsible for and then I’ve got this uniform that I need to wear properly and behave in a certain way. Otherwise you’re going to look like an idiot in front of everybody. So you have this level of responsibility in the military that you don’t really find elsewhere and you kind of get indoctrinated into that.

Speaker 3: 00:37:49 You kind of, um, the indoctrination or brainwashing, if you like, on the front end of that, helps you to understand the meaning of all of those things. And all militaries around the world go through the same things. And you know, that that kind of encompasses service for me. And I really think that you can still find the same level of servitude outside a civilian, even if you’ve never served in the military. And that’s just by being selfless, by helping others, by doing the right thing and doing what you say it is that you’re going to do. Um, and, and I really believe when you behave in a selfless way to help other people, that is a form of service. The other day I was just, I was out for my afternoon walk after I’d been sitting inside for eight hours working away at my computer and need to get off and go.

Speaker 3: 00:38:34 And, and walking up the road, there was probably four or five people in front of me and we’re walking in the car park and this woman was opening her the boot of the car, pulling a, the spare tire out. And there was about four or five people in front of me, all men, all by themselves. And they all walked pasta. And I thought, really no one’s going to go and help her. And I went over and I said, hello, would you need some help? And she said, no, I’m good, I’m good. And I said, well, should, I mean, how are you going to take the tire off? And she had the wheel brace and she started to undo the nut like that, but she hadn’t put the Jack and Jack the car, Colorado. I said, well, if you’re going to take the tire off like that, how are you going to get the new one on?

Speaker 3: 00:39:15 Because the, it’s not jacked up. And she was like, Oh, I never thought of that. I said, why don’t you just let me help you, I’ll help you. So it took me like 10 minutes to change a tire, you know, it’s no, no big deal. And I put the, the, the dead one in the boot for her and closed it. And she was like really grateful and she was like very thin. I’m like, yeah, no worries. All good. Have a great afternoon and I’ll fall when, and I thought, you know, it just takes a moment of your day to do the right thing and help another person like that. And you could still get that feeling of service that we felt in the military by helping another person, by living a good life and doing the right thing by people. I think that’s, that’s how I would sum it up.

Speaker 2: 00:39:55 Very, very interesting. You mentioned that story there about helping the lady with the tire. Four people have walked past, you have stopped, you’ve offered help and she still said no. One of the things that I see in business today is that asking for help has become a dirty word and I think there’s a huge problem here that’s coming from our British heritage where we’ve got to have this stiff upper lip where we’ve always got to, you know, be tougher, real men, real men don’t cry and I think it helps become a dirty word in changing this perspective in those perceptions is going to be ultimately important because 85% of businesses fail because of management incompetence and it’s those people who don’t know enough to survive. They, they ruin their own lives, their families, their communities, simply because they don’t ask for help, but it’s not just their fault because it’s also the community fault because they don’t allow them to ask for help.

Speaker 2: 00:40:52 So knowing this, I’ve been having a look at some suicide rates around the world and the suicide rate in Australia is expected to rise by 40% in the years ahead and [inaudible] that’s a very alarming stat. It’s huge in America. The statistics show that the highest rate of heart attacks happen on a Monday morning because people are coming to a place of work where they hate to be. They don’t like being there. And the body’s saying, don’t make me go to work for another day. And then if the heart attack doesn’t kill them, the thing that I learned after that is the highest rate of suicide takes place on a Monday after lunch with, I go out for lunch and they come back to this place of work and say, I can’t live another day like this. And they throw themselves out of the window and the paramedics are ready for the heart attacks on Monday morning in the Farber guide and the place are ready for the suicides on Monday afternoon. And I believe it comes from this not accepting help. When somebody offers they hand and you’re rejected based on your own perception. I’m thinking, Hey, maybe they don’t think I’m competent. Maybe they’ll think I’m incompetent. Maybe they think I’m a fool. There’s some big problems out there. And I think with conversations like this at a bio dinette to be addressed.

Speaker 1: 00:42:09 Yes, absolutely. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. I thought

Speaker 2: 00:42:12 my, my, my question is, uh, what are some of the dark moments in your life? You know, you’ve, you’re, you’re an immigrant, you’ve left your home land, you’ve come to a new land, you’re, you’re of a different color skin. You’ve joined the military, you’ve left the military after 20 years, you’ve started a business. What are some of those dark moments so other people can realize that these things are happening to them?

Speaker 1: 00:42:33 So one of the documents is a fact of I, when I realized I have a chronic PTSD, um, and the stigmatization going on in our society about mental health. Uh, most people don’t want to talk about it. They believe you’re crazy. Uh, uh, but I always thought that I didn’t wake up one morning. I make myself, you know, mentally heal, so to say, you know, it’s because of the experiences which I went through and it was not because I put myself to that experience, you know, it’s just what is needed at particular point in time. And the body reacts differently when you’re going through this so-called, you know, switch over emotional you today you’re in combat tomorrow. You are not back and forth on some of those experiences. I have a way of kind of, uh, you know, uh, stress in your life, out in your psychological wellbeing and for that in itself, for me coming to terms with it, uh, and seeking help was very pivotal in my, after military life.

Speaker 1: 00:43:33 What I’m going to do, I’m not going to will in my own law, I have PTSD. I can work again, but I’m in to seek help. And being an American, it’s not something we do actually is on American to seek help. It’s American and would like to Trump our chests. You know, we’re very individualistic in nature and, and it’s something that is casually crippling a lot of businesses as you said these days. And also, uh, and that’s what we were trained to be. That way we don’t ask for help. Even when I was in the military, if you, if you, if you’re doing that navigation or you ask for help, you pretty much look at it. But I had the pastor, the dirt burger, the old unit. Wow. You ask for help on a navigation. No, you’re not a get lost. At least you’re out getting lost then to ask for help.

Speaker 1: 00:44:22 You see how I’m crazy and I was, you rather get lost, you know, during that navigation that to ask for help is because we believe in that. I wrote that go wrong, I lose, I know I’m man enough to go run out to ask for help, which is the very wrong way to look at life. You know, and the same thing is that kind of knowledge transfer is casual featuring to do where we do things. You know, kids are trained to not ask for help. You do it by yourself. And I don’t know how we can change this culture, but for me, I determined that when I discovered that something is just no, right. The way I’m addressing people. Do we, um, you know, uh, flipping people off, do we, you know, sometimes your way of life and if you’re having some PTSD mind you might not see some clear difference because sometimes they’re like the same thing, but like, well, how do you notice?

Speaker 1: 00:45:14 Like I just know that something is not clicking right. Something is not right. And for myself and for the family and if I want to prolong my life or don’t want to, you know, I have, I, like you said, I’m kind of futuristic in my work at these are the things I wanted to do in the narrowest future and for me to be able to do that, I have to address this now and that’s why I seek help. And it’s a continual process. It’s not an ever done deal. And the, and the people are, I know you have a community of folks around you encouraging you, like, look, this does, uh, you know, as long as you’re doing and everyday day by day you put one step after the other and uh, and you can only hope for the best, you know, and I hope everyone can understand that she can help is one of the grit STN you can ever do for yourself.

Speaker 1: 00:45:58 Seeking help is a strength in itself. I believe you to swallow your own pride and say, you know what, I’ll do this. I’ll do this hour and I’ll tell you I failed a jump master school and I was a, I was a paratrooper [inaudible] twice. You know, I have asked for help, but I was like, Nope, I don’t want people to look me or that I’m weak. You know, like, you know, it’s like Southern things are like weakness. You can’t do this. You look weak doing that, you know, and I feel twice and pull easily. That’s trick to it. There’s a ways to do jump master when you inspect the powerful father. I have to jump out of airplanes, you know, but I thought I can just mostly to my own and I feel that I will, I feel willfully and listen, learn less than them in a place whereby you don’t, you don’t have know how to do it.

Speaker 1: 00:46:40 Ask for help. Whoever else doesn’t pull the hair out of my head. Not at all. It doesn’t, I mean if you look at me like I’m weak. Oh well it’s your own palava its own prerogative. No mine, you know, and uh, I that’s always at the outlook on life. And at the moment I kind of shifted. I’m perverted. My outlook on life. Things become easier. It’s very hard to think big can always do by yourself like nobody else needs to help you. And if we’ve carried on on the Lord, most Americans have carried that mentality to business. And that’s why a lot of businesses are feeling this sequel help all day long. Even I’ll be on my knees, I don’t, I do not care. I will be on my knees begging for help, you know, because Hugh has a laugh. Laugh. You will love last laugh best as sodas.

Speaker 1: 00:47:23 I think as an English idiom. Like he will laugh last love best. I don’t care as long as I get the out of it. And that was what I descend mentality. I address when I approach my therapist and I look, I think something is wrong with me and from then I’ll be able to find some kind of ease in life because if not, who knows what my life would have been if I didn’t seek out. You know? So I always look at it that way. And for me that’s really helped me and I always advocate for it. Look, hat’s for help. If something is wrong with two hats for help, it’s like some people don’t even go to the hospital. Men really feel good at us when something is wrong for me, if something is wrong, I’ll be the first one in the hospital. Cause you never know.

Speaker 1: 00:48:00 You never know what this thing can turn up to or you’re not mad off. You’ve been assessing, Oh well you know, and uh, but we have to change that doc culture, that mentality that I think a lot of things are changing now. We have a lot of mental health professionals that are helping to change the culture. But I mean that’s [inaudible] 1960 1950 behavior man, that thing is still well ingrained in our culture and I think we need to dilute it a little bit about oxen people to seek. I mean to sit for hell, even if you don’t ask for that, people at least find something that somebody told me, I don’t cry. Oh well that’s good for you. I cry. It’s good for me. Emotional release. I cry. I mean, what’s wrong with a man crying? You know what is wrong with the man cry.

Speaker 1: 00:48:46 It measured them cry. Since who? Who’s who’s book, who wrote the book, we wrote these rules that we come, you find ourselves to all these crazy rules. I measure don’t do this boy should do this. Girls size since who? And these are some of the things that is actually affecting different cultures. And our society at large, everything has been very siloed way of looking at things. [inaudible] not descending the kitchen. So culture desire that a women should be doing this right now and this is the same thing as men should not cry. Men should not do this. You always stand brick or well, you know? And, and how has that helpful so far? Absolutely not. We have men in America incarcerated because of all this nonsense, you know? And uh, so for me, I’m very deeply passionate about this because it has saved my life, you know, and this is a life saving experience.

Speaker 1: 00:49:36 So, um, I’ve always LPT all day long even I even actually have more than I do it myself, you know? But, but there’s so much, there’s so many helping hands out there that can help you. Some things. I don’t know. I have some people that know, you know, I’m the Jack. I don’t know. You know, actually I know nothing. I had absolutely no nothing, you know, as enough people to help me out cause I wasn’t in Auckland. And you gain so much perspective when you help others to help you in thinking, help you in doing something that you gain. You have a brother, a brother, a brother. We have looking at life. But you know, I’ve seen a lot of friends that I’ve passed because of inability to recognize the people who have died or suicide. And I’ve seen people that I know and these are, these are real, these are real life thing. You know, I’m not saying that they haven’t for help. Uh, I’m just saying that, uh, something they rival for me. I just, at some point I realized that if I don’t do this, uh, not only my life would change, the lives of people around me would do at the same time.

Speaker 2: 00:50:40 Yeah. We’ve, we said you, uh, you just mentioned the bad suicide. Um, early today I was writing an article here in Forbes magazine and it said that, uh, suicide, uh, is also a very impulsive act. And the thought occurs about 15 minutes before the suicide. So training people had a think before these things happen is going to be absolutely critical. No, it’s 15 minutes. It’s quite scary. Rob, what about some of those moments for you in your life? What have been some of those dark moments for you? You’ve, you’ve been a businessman, you’ve served country and coin. What’s it been for you?

Speaker 3: 00:51:22 It’s not so much, um, my personal moments. I think the way I describe it, and again, I use a little bit of humor and poke fun at myself because I think that’s the way that I kind of make light of things and it, and it helps me to communicate the message nicely. And one of the things that I discovered on after doing nudging up against 400 interviews, doing this podcasting thing myself, being interviewed and interviewing other people, is that the problems that you think that you have, the little skeletons that you have that you don’t tell anybody about, I really not that bad. And you might, for some reason, you make a mountain out of a molehill and you’re in your own mind’s eye about something that went wrong. But after so many interviews and so much talking about doing whatever it types to succeed and you find people go on a journey and they take you all the way down to the bottom, they hit rock bottom before they turn around and everybody’s rock bottom is different.

Speaker 3: 00:52:20 You know, some people’s rock bottom is financial, some people’s is health, some is relationships. And the rock bottom bottoms that you hear about consistently in some weeks I’ll do five or six interviews and if you hear five or six different stories about hitting rock bottom, you kind of look at your own life and go, man, I’ve got a pretty good compared to these people. Or you might even look at it and go, man, I’ve got it pretty tough compared to these people. But what you’re doing is you’re comparing yourself to other people all the time and you shouldn’t compare yourself to other people all the time. What you should do is just address your own problems, ask for help because there’s really not that big a deal to ask for a little bit of help. Um, you, you can’t, you know, born into this world as a perfect person expected to knowing no, all of these things about life.

Speaker 3: 00:53:03 And for me, I, I kind of resisted asking for help for a long time, about many different issues in my life. Um, I had a parachute malfunction when I was at the parachute school and something, something happens in your, in the chemistry of your brain in a PTSD thing. I don’t think I suffered from PTSD or suffered really badly from anxiety as a result of that. Um, and I would have these rising anxiety just for no reason out of the blue. And it only happened after that had happened to me even though nothing happened to me. I’m sitting here talking to you. I’m completely fine. I just had a really scary experience that changed the chemistry in my brain when that had happened. And I obviously thought that I was going to die, but I didn’t. And I would go back to that moment and relive that moment constantly.

Speaker 3: 00:53:48 But then I realized that, Hey, I’m all right. And then I had this bad anxiety and it was a lot of the big tough paratrooper doesn’t ask for help, don’t ask nobody for help. I’m, I’m fine. Like it doesn’t last long. That’s only sort of five or 10 minutes. So I can make my way through it each time and I’ve got my own coping mechanisms, but the reality is I should’ve seek help and I should’ve seek help much sooner than I did because it did start to effect my life, starting to affect my family, my children, and just the way that I was in the world. And again, I can only look back with hindsight and say say that. But the reality is it’s not such a big thing. There’s plenty of people that had the same malfunction as me. And you know, if somebody had to just grab me and say, Hey listen, man, you know, everything’s going to be a ride.

Speaker 3: 00:54:26 It’s not, it’s normal to feel like that. You’re going to go through these feelings, you’re going to experience these things. It’s just not such a bad thing. It’s completely normal that you’re feeling like that. The normality of it. Then would have, you know, made it not something that I wanted to hide away cause I was scared to show people that stuff. Um, and you know, over time I, I, I got better and I’ve got myself better, but I would’ve got better much sooner and much faster if I hadn’t put my hand up and said, Hey, this is what happened to me and this is what’s happening to me. Can somebody help?

Speaker 2: 00:54:58 Awesome. I want to draw a picture, um, up here on the screen for both of you gentlemen, and we call it the universal model of change. And I think it’s a really good picture for most people to understand. And it looks like that a square root sign from a, when we’re back in school and what happens is at point [inaudible] everything in our life is going along. I, okay, everything’s fine. That’s a flying around at 40,000 feet and there’s no turbulence and all of a sudden you come to point B in your life and there’s this clear air turbulence. It comes in totally unexpected air traffic control doesn’t warn the captain. The first officer doesn’t know what’s going on and all of a sudden things start to get a little bit bumpy and what people tend to do here is try to go back to what they were doing before and so they say something’s going wrong.

Speaker 2: 00:55:55 Instead of making an improvement in their life, they try to go back to do what they were doing before. Eventually after trying that, they go on this slippery slope all the way down to the pit of despair. They get down to rock bottom and they think they have to follow that path. But like you were saying before Adebayo there is no book that says you have to hit rock bottom. There’s no book that says you have to go through problems like this. So as coach, what would you say to our clients? You don’t have to go from a to B to C. you can go over here to D and if you just ask for Hill, you don’t have to go through that pit of despair. You don’t have to go through all of that heartache because like Rob said, other people have been through this before.

Speaker 2: 00:56:42 Other people have had this problem. If you ask for help, they can show you what they did to avoid that situation going wrong in your life. But unfortunately what happens, and we get back to that future insight is, is most people aren’t clear on their future and where they’re going. So they get to D and they’ve just got far enough away from the problem so it doesn’t bother them anymore. But what they really need to have is that new place in life, that new next level. And they’re going to continue on that path just a little bit further. And if they follow that universal model of change, they will learn from that experience. They’ll learn coping mechanisms, and then as soon as they can teach this to somebody else, they actually get to learn it for a second time. And then that resiliency score starts to develop. And we see it as in this universal model of change. And if we can follow that sequence, then we’ll move through these episodes. Like Rob says, like a blip on the radar. Hmm.

Speaker 1: 00:57:47 And you’re absolutely right. Uh, when I, when my, uh, mental health professional was asking me, what do I want out of this? I said, I just want to go back to my old ways. I just want to do what I used to do before. And I was stuck there for a couple of years and it was like, why do you want to go back there? Because that’s what I need. But I not realize that I have changed the, like, like Rob said, a lot of things are changed in, in me instead of me to embrace the new me. I kept running back to my old meal. I want, I want to be able to, you know, run, do like 50 miles every day on my bike. You know, those days are long, but I don’t even like biking normal, you know, I just have to embrace something new.

Speaker 1: 00:58:33 You know, I’m four years I was talking to like, I just want to go back to web old, my old habits. But those things are long gone naturally. The worry not appealing to me no more. And that was one of the reasons why I realized that something is absolutely wrong with me. And it took me years to realize that no, I have changed then I would never get back to that old self every day again. I’m into embrace this new me and keep moving forward. And that is when I started my own healing process. So thank you for actually sharing dye because that is awesome. And that, I mean this is, I said I’m done actually, but I lived through it. I literally like, I just want to go back, trust me, whatever you need to do, medication, whatever. I just need to go back to my old life five years ago, you know? But I never Apple in that realize that regardless of how much I tried to get back to my old life, it never happened. Okay, this new me, what do I need to do? I enjoy photography. I just like, this is, this is weird, you know? But this is just what my new situation actually allows and kind of encouraged me to join that. You know? And I’m, I’m grateful for that. I’m actually grateful for that. So thanks for sharing that because that’s quite profound.

Speaker 2: 00:59:39 My pleasure at I bio. It’s been an absolute pleasure to have he have you with the seats today and that before we wrap up, uh, how could you summarize this doc side of business and some very simple steps for people to get out of it. What would you be doing and what would you be signed to people who were in that situation now who need to get out of it?

Speaker 1: 01:00:00 So that side of business and I lifted just this cause it actually will hammer the mail so much. I think the kneel probably broke by now is to embrace your imperfection. Uh, the darkness will show you everything about yourself that you don’t like. It show you everything about your business that you don’t like. Like I don’t want to turn away from this, but there’s certain things that you can change. That’s what it is. You cannot change Shelly for business. Understanding your weaknesses, understanding your strengths. And this is where we spoke about emotional intelligence and not only on the, on the individual side or the business side as well. What are you good at and what I use, what you saw, cat, you know, and understanding and let your business know that this is what you stand for. And I’m not a, I’m not a proponent.

Speaker 1: 01:00:46 I don’t subscribe to the fact that you actually improve your weakness. Actually, it’s not all of my, what I teach people, I was like, there’s a weakness for a certain reason. Capitalize on your strengths and let yourself propel you. You know, I used to tell people I ate when I was in the middle of dressing and running for 20 years. I don’t allow you a grid row. And I was like, no, I hate Ron and I hate, I despise running. But people will never know. People think I’m a great runner. No, they don’t understand. But I did enough just to make people think I’m a great runner. You know, I, man, I hated running, but nobody knew that I didn’t run with passion. Actually, if I S I hate with passion, but nobody knew that, wow, you run 10 miles, you dip half marathon, you’re great.

Speaker 1: 01:01:26 Like, no, you just don’t understand. I did just enough to mask my weakness from the wall to see. But the people that really know me know I hate running. But ask them to do the same. Capitalize on your strengths and let people understand that this is waste. That because the moment you embrace your imperfection, you’re bound to be great at that is that, that’s the best I could. I leave you the mold. Personal life I’ve lived in my business life. It is what it is. The moment you shy away from your imperfection, that is the beginning of the doom. It just the way of the world. You will continue to stay in the dark. I remain in the dark or you be thinking you’re in the light. You know, it’s this idea of ignorance. So people in the dark, but I think they’re in the light.

Speaker 1: 01:02:08 Uh, the best way to do it is seeking to help, seeking help to, for you to embrace this cause it’s hard. It’s hard. Even babies don’t even like their own. I mean babies don’t even like the bad side of themselves. [inaudible] you know, and and we’ve transferred this thing in instead of addressing it in bad personal life, we transfer to our business line. It’s about embracing our imperfect. It dies so much Trenton, it, there’s a reason the world was created not to contain perfection. The warden in itself cannot contain perfection. There’s always going to be improvement. And that is why the imperfection, the moment you understand your imperfection, do the best you can. And if you cannot just continue to ode onto your strength or your tread, your strength alone will carry you through.

Speaker 2: 01:02:53 Well said. And Rob, your final thoughts in closing?

Speaker 3: 01:02:58 Yeah. I believe that tough men and women create good times. So if you’re facing hard times in your business and you’re going through a a dark time in your business, tough it out. Grit your teeth, dig in and hold the line. Because if you just stick with it a little bit longer and you’ve got enough tolerance there, then you can tolerate it for a long enough. You build enough resilience to get on the other side of it, and you will close the gap from where you are to where you want to be. And I really believe with everything in my being that tough men and women make good times because weak people quit and weak people. Let it go through to the keeper and wake. People don’t ask for help. So ask for help. Put your hand up, tough it out, and go all in. Love you, Rob.

Speaker 2: 01:03:50 Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us today. And let me wrap up by saying the very best times of your life or in the future, the highest income of your life is in the future. And the happiest moments of your life is still yet to come. And the greatest achievements that you will ever achieve is still in the future. And that means your future is unlimited because it’s only held back by your imagination. So I hope these ideas that we’ve shared with you today are helpful, and the three of us wish you a wonderful day. Thanks for joining us. Ciao for now.

Speaker 4: 01:04:21 [inaudible]

Speaker 3: 01:04:22 bye.