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In this episode of Win Sales Now, Rob and Daniel sit down with Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton from Two Red Shoes and discuss what it takes to win sales and create profit as a Mortgage Broker.

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Robert Brus 0:09
Well, g’day everyone, and welcome to Win Sales Now and Go All In. I’m Robert Brus.

Daniel Tolson 0:14
And I’m Daniel Tolson.

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 0:16
And I’m Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton.

Robert Brus 0:18
Rebecca, how are you going?

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 0:19
Thank you.

Robert Brus 0:20
It’s great to have you here.

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 0:21
Thanks for having me.

Robert Brus 0:21
Let’s get that microphone a little bit closer for me otherwise, it’s just gonna be hell in editing. Hold it up there. We’ve got it. As you can see, we’ve got a third person here today we’ve got a special guest Rebecca and we’re going to talk all things sales and if this is your first time here, the channel this is all about winning sales. Not yesterday. Now now baby now we’re gonna win a sales now. So the 20th 30 minutes here with you, ladies and gentlemen, and you’re going to take away some really useful tips that you can apply in your business to help you to win some more business and win some more sales now. So it’s great to have back here and going to have a really interesting conversation and if this is your First time he don’t forget to hit that subscribe button ring the bell give us a thumbs up. And if you back for more Welcome back. We love our repeat offenders at the Golden show and actually that as well let’s let’s get into it, shall we? What have you got that you’ve got some? You’ve done some prep for this interview man. I feel guilty. I’m not

Daniel Tolson 1:18
ready. I have researched back in two different dimensions. One, I’ve had to look at her achievements. And in my personal opinion, I think she’s one of the finest mortgage brokers in Sydney. Absolutely. And we’re going to dig inside of her mind to understand what makes her successful in her field. So we’ve had a look at what she’s been doing. There’s tonnes of articles in here through the Australian presses. Lots of media

Robert Brus 1:42
here on my little clipboard here. Absolutely. Please explain

to me what’s going on.

Daniel Tolson 1:49
It says here, coming out of our relationship breakdowns can cause havoc with timelines. So this is a recent article we have featured on news.com What happens when relationships breakdown

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 2:03
will in relation to how I’m getting involved. So we think, unfortunately, a lot more people coming to us where the relationship has broken down, and they need advice or Help to Buy, the next time we’ll buy the property from their outgoing spouse. And I guess it just needs to be dealt with in a manner that is compassionate. There’s a lot of understanding. Unfortunately, a lot of women don’t feel like they’re necessarily getting the attention that they deserve. And so that’s where we come into the fall.

Daniel Tolson 2:36
We were just talking about me in a previous episode about emotional intelligence. and compassion comes in the era of empathy. How important is empathy as a broker, because you’re obviously hearing things that most people never hear?

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 2:49
Absolutely. And a lot of people are in a really vulnerable situation either literally either literally they in trouble or They’re exposing themselves. So figuratively they’re giving you their dirty underwear or shall we say in terms of their financial history. So it’s absolutely critical to treat everything empathetic, empathetically.

Daniel Tolson 3:12
They’re borderline, they’re back way. You can be too empathetic. When you become an empath, and you get caught up in the storey, and you stop doing your job. A lot in your field

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 3:26
could be true.

We don’t

Robert Brus 3:31
really hit that issue, shall we say. But you, that could be true. Certainly, if you got carried away with the moment and took off your credit hat, you might lose track of what’s going to actually work and what you know what is never going to get approved. So you must always keep focused on what’s going to work in the real world.

Daniel Tolson 3:54
So there’s that theoretical element, and then there’s the practical element. Yeah. How does broker developers emotional intelligence skills. I know we’ve done a lot of training together, how do other people do it?

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 4:06
And lots and lots of practice.

Robert Brus 4:08
So I’ve been doing this for 18 years, and I guess after a while you see a lot. And that naturally develops your skills. And yes, we have done a lot of work on this together. The MFWA, which is our industry body is also developing some courses around this, but I think that it’s just something that you intrinsically have. So it’s an innate abilities, as well as something that you literally either develop at the coalface or you don’t he died, then you won’t necessarily do very well.

Becky mentioned that you’ve been in the industry for 18 years. That’s a long time. That’s a long time to do one thing right. So you know what one thing that comes to my mind when I hear you say that and I’ve spoken a lot to people in your space in the real estate space and in and in mortgage broking and whatnot, you’ve seen it all you’ve seen boom in Boston boom and bust a Again, what have you learned about yourself from a sales perspective when you, you know, you look back over your shoulder when you first kicked off, and it was all a little bit awkward and tricky, and it was hard. And if people are watching this, you know, they’re seeing you and they see us sitting here in our fancy clothes in our suits and doing that. They’re like, Oh, my God, I’m just kicking off mockery. I’m never going to get there. It seems unattainable. But everyone starts somewhere. What what what have you learned in the last 18 years of selling?

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 5:23
Just keep going?

Robert Brus 5:26
Persistence is key.

And I’ve always said to Daniel, there is no plan B. If you’ve got no plan B, you really have no choice but to keep going.

Daniel Tolson 5:35
Did you suck at sales at the stop?

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 5:36
Yeah, and I look, I really think

Robert Brus 5:40
I’m going to say, roughly, I’m not a salesperson, I’m a service person, service the hell out of them, and that naturally leads to sales. And you don’t have to be, in my opinion, sorry to anyone. You have to be really salesy. You do a really good job and care about the person in front of you and it’s going to happen anyway. So a lot of people you know, have a adverts to sales. But if you actually just think about it as helping somebody that that works that wins. And that’s going to do better than, you know, a sleazy sales technique any day. And at the end of the day sales is actually just helping somebody find that product or get that service that they really want. So it’s really not anything like that.

No, it’s not much different to what we were talking about in the previous episode where we’re talking about social intelligence. And if you haven’t seen that episode, ladies and gentlemen, have a look around here somewhere that’s going to be there would you want on social intelligence and emotional intelligence? And in that episode, we talked about empathy a lot, and you started off talking about that, but there’s also a lot to be said for kindness. And and what you’re describing there is, gosh, you just be nice to people build relationships and be kind to them in the sale naturally follow through

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 6:46
that authentically.

Robert Brus 6:48
genuinely care.

Yeah, that’s right. People can see through it. So you have to be authentic. And if you can’t be authentic, you get out of it.

Did you have to develop that when you first started learning that or was that something that was just innately within you, as As a human being,

yeah, just use me. That’s just how you are. And I think, you know, if that’s not a nightly and you move on to something else, find what it is. That is your calling or what it is. That is your, your niche.

Daniel Tolson 7:12
Vic mentioned a plane a moment ago, in the University of Wisconsin in the business school, they studied this and they had to look at these people with a plan B. And what they discovered is that people with a plan B, who consider it for as little as 10 minutes, start to self sabotage. And biggest part of business success is just keeping moving forward, keep going. And you can’t let let your mind drift. And that’s part of emotional intelligence that comes back to put a level of self awareness to know that there is only a plan A, and there’s no plan B. So if Plan B is a problem for you, and you keep considering, you know, doing something else changing businesses, then you got to get back to your goals and your single defining focus. So for you weathering the storm, BEC you’ve seen the UPS In the downs of the markets, you’ve had your own challenges. What do you think about most of the time? What is that in golf for you? Where are you going? So

Robert Brus 8:14
that’s any motivation you drive, it was a pretty good one.

Because no one motivator, but actually, like underlying that is I brought to two girls, two daughters. And I’ve always wanted to show them that you can be a strong, independent woman, strong, independent female, and it’s coming through. So my 10 year old, repeats that phrase every now and then says, Please hear me say it. So that’s like, that’s my altruistic motivator. But yeah, and I do have moments where I waver and I’ve had enough, I’m going to check it either I’m going to get a job. And funnily enough, when you do have those moments, you’ll get offered one.

No, no chair.

Daniel Tolson 8:57
Were you listening to a conversation the other day talking to my mom about this. And I said, that’s it. And then mini sends a message at two o’clock in the morning says, Congratulations, you’ve just been accepted for your biggest speaking gig. And then I’m back all in. Yeah. Yeah, we try to play you know, it’s that bit of that reverse psychology. And sometimes I think we don’t realise how much we love something until we even think it could be possibly taken away from us. And we got willing to double down the plan of it.

Robert Brus 9:27
Yeah. And it only takes a couple of wins to really motivate you again, doesn’t it? Like it just a couple of tiny we will win? And yeah, you know, and again,

absolutely, you gotta be careful that you don’t get strung along by those little wins as well. You’ve also you definitely have to have some some beginning goals. You’ve been doing that for 18 years, you must have had some goals along the way. Did you hit some targets, buy some houses, do some property, do some deals yourself.

I certainly have and, and I’m really big fan of smashing my numbers. So I love sort of checking my numbers and I’m a real and panellists. In terms of, I can know exactly what it costs me to run my business down to the dollar. And I’ve done the time and motion studies. I know what it cost me to do a deal. And I know exactly what it costs me on a monthly on a weekly on a, you know, an annual basis and I know what I need to make, which I think is actually really good advice for anybody in business is to actually physically know all of the numbers. But in that respect, I also know what my growth targets out or in terms of what my income is this month, and then what I’d like it to be next month, I’d like to be the following month. I love smashing that back. That’s a huge motivator for me. big goals. Then not set right. I’m so great at those but little gold like month a month. Yeah, that’s the

fire. What’s that? What’s the feeling that you get from from winning? Is that the revenue targets that you get in your bank account? Is it looking at your bank account? Or is it the fact that you that you hit the target?

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 10:53
If the target is looking at the target? It’s not so much

Daniel Tolson 10:55
it’s not the scoreboard so much?

Robert Brus 10:57
Yeah, that’s interesting, right? Because most people are motivated, most aren’t winners are motivated by money, but sometimes it’s the thrill of the chase.

Daniel Tolson 11:04
Ha ha ha. Well, the past couple of months, I’ve been looking into Beck’s thinking.

Robert Brus 11:13
What did you find in there? What?

Daniel Tolson 11:15
Where do we begin? How long have we got on the YouTube channel? We’re going to 77 page insight into Rebecca’s psychology. In we’re going to break down today on the God Willing show for behaviours. And what I want to have a look at is how Beck is a behavioural match to her role as a mortgage broker. Because we can get a lot of stress in a life if we are not a behavioural match to what we do. And as I heard back, talking about the numbers and knowing how much he needs to run the business day in and day out, I start to flick back through here to here reporting all my gosh, look at the size of this blue bar. This level of detail suits this type of role and I want to pull this apart because somebody like myself, who’s bigger picture and I’m not so far focused on the details. That brings me a lot of stress, I automatically know based on my behaviour, so I couldn’t succeed in this role. But I want to take a look

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 12:07
at this rule in every business

needs to know the number it is,

Robert Brus 12:12
but he’s not doing that role in that business. Would that be the difference?

Daniel Tolson 12:18
there? Yeah. So we got, we got 77 pages into big psychology here, and we’re gonna have a look at her behaviours. And we’re going to have Look at her strengths and how these create success in her business. We’re going to have a look at what drives her and what pushes her to succeed in business. We’re also going to have a look at her competencies. And we will know based on her competencies, why she is more successful than other people, why is she getting results that other people want? And if they just start to adapt these competencies and develop those competencies, they can get the exact same results. It’s no brain science, if they just if you just do what successful people do, you get the same results. And then we also want to have a look at the tumour. So we’re going to go through as much as we Can and we’re gonna have a looking to big psychology and we’re gonna learn let’s dive in

Robert Brus 13:05
show it let’s let’s, are you ready? Ready put it out there for everybody to see in the world.

What’s that vulnerability feel like the

hot seat plenty of camera and lighting is quite hypnotise

Daniel Tolson 13:20
me and stuff that we did that on the last episode is, if you haven’t seen that episode, check it out. So what makes some people more successful than others is that they’re more aware of their strengths. And for one big strengths here one of those characteristics is that she strives forward constantly to improvement in everything she does. So what is it that you’re constantly trying to improve in business?

Robert Brus 13:46
Look, look at it is just that constant source of improvement. I actually don’t have really great self esteem. So for me, it’s just that constant trying to improve my self esteem or improve my worth, in my opinion by justified validating if I can take these incremental steps forward then it naturally makes sense right that you can be to take on the latter step

Daniel Tolson 14:09
when you feel yourself in proving what happens in your personal psychology you start talking to yourself differently

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 14:19
still, it’s still beneficial.

Robert Brus 14:21
Okay, is it filling out you know, mortgage brokers fill out a lot of paperwork and you got a project each one of those things is a project to to put together and applied for home loans and are exactly what it feels like. I’ve never had to actually corral it all and do it all. But is there must be enormous satisfaction in doing that, right? Oh, yeah. Do you ever like because you’re really detailed oriented person? Does it feel like when you get it done, right, you’re like, man, I just

Daniel Tolson 14:43
nailed that one. I just realised that one

Robert Brus 14:45
and it is actually the process that takes months and months or even. I’ve worked with clients that have been years in the making. So yes, in fact, filling out a form from start to finish is complete. And there’s such satisfaction in that because all In the process is inevitably

Daniel Tolson 15:01
Yeah, that’s what this is brother says that she’s good at work that requires attention to detail and accuracy. So your role does it satisfy that talent?

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 15:10
Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Daniel Tolson 15:12
When other people aren’t when other people’s attention to detail isn’t as high as yours. How do you feel about that in business operations?

Robert Brus 15:21
Look, it’s it’s a little frustrating, but you just have to do with what you can. Because then it’s not to say that I’m not perfect either. And I’ll kick myself when I’m make mistakes, but it is what it is. And it does lead itself to the role very well, attention to detail, particularly in our industry. Obviously, it’s critical to get things wrong, and you can open up a new credit card for someone and get things wrong and can make the difference between them buying a house or not,

Daniel Tolson 15:42
right. Serious ventures business. Yeah. So the consequences

Robert Brus 15:46
consequences are huge.

One thing I find really interesting is that the attention to detail that you have is really got nothing to do with sales, that it’s actually got everything to do with sales. Because without that attention to detail, we can’t win the sale. We can When the business you can’t make it happen for yourself.

Daniel Tolson 16:03
Number one, he says that you prefer doing the job right the first time. Yeah, rather than taking shortcuts that may lessen the quality of work.

Robert Brus 16:11
Yeah. And it’s funny too, because I’m better at doing the job than checking the job. Right. So I’d much rather do it myself and try and look for a fault in someone else’s work.

Is it a case of Measure twice cut once? Or is it just a case of just doing it properly the first time? You don’t know you don’t do that. Some people are really methodical in the decision making process like that, you know, they, they they look at something. Yeah, that’s the way to do it. Then they check it again. Yeah, that’s definitely the way to do it. And I go, but you just know intuitively from doing it.

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. It’s a wake up the process first, and do it right the first time period anyway.

Daniel Tolson 16:48
One of the other behaviours he had he Beck is that the number one behind the few is consistent, and this is the ability to perform predictably in repetitive situations. Now the average of the Population comes in at 62 points out of 100. Yours comes in at 95.

Robert Brus 17:07
On the far

right hand side of the scale, that’s a good place to be.

Daniel Tolson 17:10
So this consistency of the past 18 years in business, what does this look like on the job?

Robert Brus 17:16
What does it look like on the job? I guess, repeatability. Does that mean that my clients are getting a consistent performance? I hope it does. Doesn’t mean that the well suddenly is reflected the number of ferals that I get, because I do get a lot of repeat business and referrals.

Daniel Tolson 17:32
How many referrals would you get up?

Robert Brus 17:36
Well, obviously it season all depends. But potentially 11 or 12, which is a good number for America.

I was gonna say what’s that look is a broken,

Daniel Tolson 17:44
that’s good numbers. What we know about referrals is that a referral is 10 to 15 times cheaper to acquire. And it’s 10 to 15 times faster to convert them from a prospect into a client and anybody who gets that level referrals doing something, right? Because when you refer somebody to somebody else, you’re transferring credibility, also

Robert Brus 18:07
enormous amount of trust. Yeah. And there’s an enormous amount of respect that I place on that referral and on the referral. How

Daniel Tolson 18:15
do you manage your referral partners? What what are some of the things that you do to nurture that relationship?

Robert Brus 18:20
And potentially, I think we don’t do actually quite enough. But what we do is try and send them a little thank you gift. And whenever I speak to them, try and you know, communicate gratitude.

Daniel Tolson 18:29
Thanks to that. And not too much face time with those people.

Robert Brus 18:34
The repair is not as much as I can. It’s quite challenging being obviously a single operator quite busy. And we’re on the road. So and my clients are spread all up and down the eastern seaboard, seaboard, but potentially also all across Sydney. So it’s not like they’re only one little pocket that I could pop out and say five people in an afternoon.

Is there anything surprising from that from that part of the SC look at the is that surprising to you that consistency is a characteristic that is really right really high there for you. Is that surprising? That that feels normal to you? Because sometimes you look at these tests and you go, Well, that’s not what’s the lower one there that that

Daniel Tolson 19:17
we let you look in the underwear drop. Let me just let

Robert Brus 19:19
me see. Let

Daniel Tolson 19:20
me see the frequency of change. Oh my god, you like the highest achiever, right? It’s like a consistent frequency of change down to 15. And these are some of the reasons why Becca is successful in her role. Yeah. So for myself here, my style is very low, and I’ve got to be doing something different every day. I’ve got to be working with a different client, I have to be working on a different project before quickly. That’s where I thrive. I get bored really quickly, you know, where I don’t have that consistency, but it’s what makes me successful in my field. And that’s what makes big successful in her field.

Robert Brus 19:55
You know, I would have to echo your personality type there as well for myself. Because I found in the business that I have, I consistently do the same thing over and over and over again. And when I realised when I recognise when I first started this business about 12 months ago, I recognised that it was very, very repetitive. But the businesses that have repetitive niches to them and you can replicate like that end up being really super successful. Think of something like Coke,

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 20:23
guys, you meeting new people every time absolutely

Daniel Tolson 20:28
different people different problems.

Robert Brus 20:31
You have, you have to be careful if you have that personality type where because that boredom factor sets in and the end up really distracted and something some other shiny new toy over there looks a little bit more interesting. And I could make more actually you can’t make any more money than you’re making right here. Because if you just ramp up what you’re doing and focus your attention, so that took me a lot of effort. Naturally, a lot of in some ways, some mental gymnastics, you’re lucky because you have that innately in there that you consistently do that consistently deliver. It’s actually I

actually do see the same thing. Yeah, quite diverse and quite exciting. My my role as well. And it’s the same thing over and over. It isn’t a decent because every single challenge that I’m faced with different, and maybe that’s where, so we’ll use consistency. However, every single person that sits in front of me as a different jigsaw puzzle, and they are it is mental, mental gymnastics 80s. Because there’s no two problems that are the same. And they are quite often very, very challenging. It is a mental challenge. So maybe there’s a bit of both in there. Because yes, I’m applying the exact same theories every single day. But normally people are the same. And sometimes it’s extremely challenging to work out how to get that across the line. Yeah, so that’s where I’m getting my numbers right now. That’s where I get my

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 21:48
fantastic

Daniel Tolson 21:50
box of numbers for you.

What he says here is that big brings different than used to the organisations. And one of them that are highlighted here is that she’s comprehensive in problem solving. So, what’s the problem that you’re solving? etc, right? It’s a jigsaw. Yeah. Yeah. So this is why some people succeed faster than others because they have the right behaviours that have the right values for the job that they’re in. perfect alignment. And so after riding is still buzzing. still loving it.

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 22:26
Yep, said ladies come in, and I’m lining up.

Robert Brus 22:29
Very good, very good.

Daniel Tolson 22:41
One of the other things that I found when I was going through your drivers and your motivators was something that really stood out and I I know how it fits into your business, but I’d like to learn about it from your perspective. It says he, as one of your harmonious drivers is that you may have him to help an individual or group overcome adversity. So I know you do two things and you very low key about it. One, you spend a lot of time helping women. And secondly, you’ve just had the most fascinating client who you’ve helped through adversity, and your clients are blind. And they’re going through the process of getting a mortgage. So how does this fit into what you do you you will help people overcome adversity? How does this work in with to red shoes and what you do as a mortgage broker?

Robert Brus 23:31
Okay, so well in a number of ways exactly as you’ve identified, we obviously choose fairly feminine brand right. So we so we, I set out initially, understanding so obviously, I’ve been in the industry for a long time to issues has been running for seven years now. And basically, when I re was set up on my own, I wanted to create a brand that was distinctly female Maloy that people would understand that, that we’re dealing with a female from the start, and it’s worse and people do recognise that and they say, Oh, I’m so glad it’s a woman because, and I’ve got a storey about how they were ignored. Or, you know, I was talking to this person, and I just didn’t listen, I didn’t understand that there’s definitely, unfortunately still a bias against women when they’re applying for finance on their own. And I wanted to recognise that. So that was the first thing. Secondly, I you’re alluding to, I have a seat on the board of a charity, and which has been the most incredible experience. So I’ve a seat on the board of the Haven, Japan, women’s shelter, and we are a domestic violence shelter. So we provide crisis accommodation for women who are at risk of homelessness or fleeing domestic violence. And that is just the most humbling and amazing thing that you can do, to get involved in a charity like that. It’s a community funded Shelton in partnership with women’s community shelters. So I’m literally the community and our volunteer work and some blunt philanthropists funding. Six women and their children getting up on their fate in a really strong and empowering way. for housing them. We’ve got around work around the clock caseworkers, lifting them up finding them housing, finding them, employment opportunities, and then sending them on their way again, incredible Lisa, that’s

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 25:31
fantastic. Ladies.

Robert Brus 25:32
Yeah. Good on you. Yeah,

Daniel Tolson 25:34
that’s, um, that’s wonderful. Talking about sensory acuity. I can hear the change in Beck’s voice. Absolutely. The volume centre we’ve talked about this on previous episodes about being aware of these sensory shifts. Now, empathy, we can hear you expressing empathy here, for those people who have been impacted. But coming back to sensory acuity, how do you apply sensory view century acuity to your realm and sensory acuity is the ability to notice these subtle shifts in people from moment to moment. But you get different customers with different needs. And you’re working with customers who are blind at the moment. Yeah. How does that work? So

Robert Brus 26:11
that’s been really challenging because, like most Aziz, I present really visually, and most Australians are actually really visual. They want to see how does that look? How does that, you know, what do you like the look of this sort of this language that actually wasn’t a picture?

Daniel Tolson 26:27
Yeah, I

Robert Brus 26:28
wasn’t actually conscious of until you pointed out to me all the, the, you know, the different predicates that people can use. And so I’ve been working with some beautiful, beautiful people, and the, the only am I gonna say, I don’t wanna, I’m trying to think of my language because I’m being really careful about what I say, because there is nothing, nothing holding them back. They own them all. Except that they, they are visually impaired and that for me was a bit of a challenge because one, I need to make sure that they are looked after these, they have the potential to be very vulnerable, and somebody might take advantage of them, and it ain’t gonna be made here. So I need to make sure that they’re looked after I’m going to champion them. And secondly, I need to make sure that they understand and very, very clearly, every single client of mine, I need to make sure that they understand how did that happen. And these particular clients understand when I can’t draw them the same pictures that I drove everybody else,

Daniel Tolson 27:30
is the contract written or is it in Braille? It’s written, right was like, see the colour,

Robert Brus 27:36
you still got to explain it all to them, and you’ve got to get that message to them and communicated as well.

Yeah, we got around that. So the heavy readers It was quite simple in fact. So delivery in terms of the mechanisms, we got around that fairly simply, but it was that shift in terms of my understanding or that that challenge to my presentation style. And that, that I had to one become Aware of I was really conscious of my language, I had a really good laugh with them with the female client at the end because she was talking to me about having, you know, we’re gonna we’re gonna buy this house, we haven’t seen it, we, what my parents are looking at it, but when loads of comments, she’s making things like, we haven’t seen this one, we’re going to inspect the visual, visual, like, I’m so careful. And you’re destroying the mouth, and she’s just laughing at me, you can do whatever, it doesn’t matter. But you know, it was it was a group for me a rupees of pride to work with them and to work out ways to get around these sort of obstacles, with a real focus on sensitive issues, getting rid of my

Daniel Tolson 28:41
excuses,

Robert Brus 28:43
with real focus and being sensitive to it. So we chose a lender who saw all my documents I was able to deliver electronically to them and then get them to read them and then when I sit with them, make sure I’m reading through them with them as well. And then they’re signing the exact copies that they’ve delivered that has Delivery electronically. And for the lender, we were able to choose a lender that allows electronic signatures, right? So they didn’t have to print it up. Just little simple tweaks that made the job that much better. So

I think that’s a really good example for you, ladies and gentlemen, watching this show that you need to adjust. Yeah, adaptability, you need, you need to adapt. And, you know, sometimes I think in my business, I really need to adjust to a client like that. Often I have to adjust in a podcast interview in an interview circumstance, because sometimes the subjects are really sensitive, and I don’t know how to approach them. And me personally, I had interviewed a blind guy as well. And for me, that took away the sensory experience for me because normally an interview that happens over zoom is two people on a video call, and his video screen was was black and mine was there and I’m looking at myself talking to myself and I’m interviewing this guy that has a visual impairment. He has a disability, but you know what, if I had If I had turned my screen off, which I did eventually, and you just listen to the guy, you unless he told you that he was disabled and he had that disability, you wouldn’t know. So, you know, folks that have disabilities really don’t have disabilities

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 30:15
no disabled?

Robert Brus 30:16
No, yeah, absolutely not. And then I was really like, uplifted by this person’s ability to articulate their message and live a normal life and to do all these sorts of things, just to the fact that he couldn’t see there’s really no big deal to him, but to me, it was like oh my gosh, that’s like a little bit scary to me. And then I really had to adjust so it’s a good example there that you say of, of having to check yourself and really be conscious of what you’re saying in the awareness of your language and whatnot around what you’re doing.

And such a learning experience for me in terms of interacting with them actually, like I’ve been a subscriber for a long time to it an app called be my eyes were visually impaired people can actually foreign and they might. For example, the example I gave you, they might hold up to tin cans 20 things to 20 fruit salad. It’s a mistake. I want to make sure. So I’ve had some interaction in that respect. But this is a whole new level to actually be in the home and interacting with them

a really personal level talking about the most intimate things in someone’s life as

well. Exactly. And understanding, you know, a few little hiccups. And then they’ve been double charged a few things on their bank statements, they can’t really tell but enough, and things like due dates, you can’t tell a due date on a bill. Because you can’t see it. Sometimes it’s delivered electronically. You can’t tell things. Like it’s extraordinary the level of challenge that is presented and yet, they have a means of getting over them and, and phenomenal. I’m so you know, I’m like a huge degree of respect. It’s

inspiring. It’s inspiring, good on you well done. And that happens to fit exactly in the hierarchy of needs all in here, right? Absolutely. Well,

Daniel Tolson 31:49
with competencies, these are the key to success, and you have to have the right competencies to succeed. And if you’re missing the right competencies, ultimately you will fail but what got here. And we’ve discovered this with Bic is and it really comes back to empathy. Once again, understanding in evaluating this, this is the capacity to perceive and understand the feelings and attitudes about this, in this school comes in at ADA. So it’s very high. So the question for you back is, what are the fees and concerns that you help your customers overcome or the process of getting a mortgage?

Robert Brus 32:24
Obviously, it’s huge. So a lot of people the one of the most common things that I hear is, can we even do anything? People come and they don’t even believe they can do a thing that

is not sure that I know.

Well, and that they have the speed, that they’re not in position, but in a good position, not in any kind of position. And that might not be because they’ve got financial trouble. It might just be because they don’t understand, you know, we only run it so we’ve only got such deposit and they don’t understand whether or not that’s enough, which they don’t have to follow you.

That’s why you there. That’s what you do. That’s right.

Um, so that’s the number one fear, shall we say and then there’s Of course, the fear of the process. What if I get it wrong? What if I miss a step of the process is huge. We do it all day every day

for unknowns, they’re right for people.

Yeah. Yeah. And there’s also that vulnerability that we discussed. They’re exposing everything to us. How much did they tell? How much do they not tell? They have to tell us everything and especially especially now,

the other one is a lot tighter than what it used to be.

sooner. So there’s so many of these fears and challenges. And then if you do meet someone who has got a particular challenge, you know, they might have missed some payments or they’ve had a job change or can that’s an additional level of discomfort, fear. Are we in trouble? Are we going to lose our house are we going to you know, these things can escalate in your mind. It takes a degree of empathy to deal with that. sensitively, carefully without buying in as you said earlier, but in you know, in In a compassionate manner. The other way that sensory acuity comes in, in those sorts of conversations is to try and detect a big, big topic in the industry at the moment is is financial abuse. So to join detective one party might be more uncomfortable for example around the conversation than another and and perhaps being subject to some financial abuse or if they just outline detective what’s if they’re actually telling you what’s really going on. We have a really am. So if we don’t detect it at the meeting, and sometimes you don’t look quite Porsche. One really good way that we have of detecting whether or not we’ve been taught alive is how often they call.

That’s what I call you.

Yeah. After you’ve taken your applications.

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 34:55
Yeah. Pulling every 30 minutes. The hottie something. Oh,

Robert Brus 35:00
I, your wife alone, actually leave it to 45. What is it is I have anxiety? Or Yeah, I haven’t told her something or I should have told her.

Listen, we’ve just had a call from the lender. And I should have told you this, it’s rule and it all comes out.

Yeah. And that requires a huge degree of empathy from your side, right? To be able to do that in a way that’s going to upset them or trigger something for your customer.

You’ve got to then manage it. So you’ve got to be able to either decipher whether or not something that the lender will

Daniel Tolson 35:37
solve the problem for

Robert Brus 35:38
solve the problem. Is it something innocent, or is it something you know, it’s something that they should we say, what’s this good circumstance, they might be something that that’s really negative and malicious or it might be something that’s reasonably innocent, and I’ve over thought it nice. So it’s managing that from the Ministry. perspective and from a perspective as well.

It’s really interesting you’re selling process doesn’t happen. We do a deal we shake your hand and deliver service that your your process goes over months. Yeah. And that’s not like you have to keep Yeah, so long time, right? You don’t have to keep selling to them, but along the way you still selling to them. Yeah. And you’re still maintaining that rapport and still maintaining the enthusiasm for the deal and helping them like that. Do you ever run out of steam?

Twice run out of steam for the process? Not really, if there’s been one or two over the years, one or two particular people that I have set

before a few quotes here and you

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 36:39
know, me, really hasn’t been many.

Robert Brus 36:43
And in terms of business in general now, and I love small business, then I’m gonna say no,

so awesome. Awesome. You’re so lucky to have found something that you love to do and consistently.

That’s not strictly true because I probably do run out of steam on a weekly basis, and then email kings and there’s a number On the air and if

you’re reinvigorated by something else, yeah, well, everything is union. Yeah, some some parts of a job that absolutely suck, and another part squad of 10 times better than much that sucks.

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 37:12
And this is I’m painting myself completely.

When I need a little pick me up, I’ll go into my account.

Robert Brus 37:22
Hashtag Excel know

Daniel Tolson 37:25
why some people are more successful than others Yeah, and it’s really about job fit, you have to have the right behaviours and the drivers and the competencies to succeed in the field that you’re in, in these competencies, behaviours and motivators suit deck and her role and that’s why she’s one of the top mortgage brokers in the country.

Robert Brus 37:43
And what I learned a lot today, one of the things that I would add to that is if you’re if you’re watching this and you’re in a role that you’re not happy with, if you’re doing something that you’re not happy with, and you probably echo that as well, is you just look at your personality type look at what it is it’s making you happy, if it’s numbers that’s making you happy. You’re on the tools all day as a plumber digging ditches on a construction site somewhere you’re never going to be happy as a mama you need to go out and go and see.

Absolutely.

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 38:11
And these assessments I generally don’t

write them I think they’re generally pretty rubbish that looks like a paid

Robert Brus 38:17
you exactly.

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 38:21
basic questions in a different manner Don’t you agree?

Robert Brus 38:23
Do you’ve done it? Oh no, I haven’t done it yet. But I am about to do that. Let’s

Daniel Tolson 38:28
do it on the next episode.

Rebecca Jarrett-Dalton 38:31
We’ll watch Robin

Daniel Tolson 38:32
dry on the next episode.

Robert Brus 38:37
We got some more info might The rain is coming down and we better get inside pretty soon we might tie this episode off so make sure if you’re here for the first time you hit that subscribe button, ring the bell and give us a thumbs up and if you got any questions for the Daniel myself or the back just pop them in the comments below will see them and reply to them there and you can go and find some more videos. Just a walk right there. We’ll see in the next video

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