Podcast Interview – Win Sales Now EP#6 with Rob Brus & Daniel Tolson

Robert Brus 0:08
Well, g’day everyone. Welcome to Win Sales Now. I’m Robert Brus.

Daniel Tolson 0:12
And I’m Daniel Tolson.

Robert Brus 0:14
Great to have you here on the channel. If this is your first time here, welcome. There’s a whole load of videos in and around. He said make sure you check those out. And if you’re back for more Welcome back. We love our repeat offenders at the goal in show and the wind sales now show. So welcome back and thank you for your support and make sure you keep the the messages coming with receiving lots and lots of messages via social media and via email as well. So we loved hearing from you and Daniel and I reply to each and every one of them. So if you got any questions, make sure you reach out to us. How are you today, man, it’s good to see you.

Daniel Tolson 0:46
I’m always good.

Robert Brus 0:47
Always good.

Daniel Tolson 0:48
Whenever there’s a sale to be taken. Yeah, I’m happy and excited in that whenever we get the opportunity to share this information with you. That makes me very happy.

Robert Brus 0:57
It’s really fun because I get to get you out on sales with you. I don’t really geek out on sales with many other people. But it’s really fun to be able to do it with you. So thank you for being here and doing this with me. It’s really good. So tonight we’ve got a really, really important topic that we want to discuss. And in some ways, it’s the probably the most important of all the most the most, you’re the most, it’s the most important topic in sales. What do you think it is? Give you a second to think about that, too. That’s enough. It’s rapport. How do you build rapport because people buy off other people they know they like and they trust? I do. What do you think about it?

Daniel Tolson 1:35
Well, in the new model of selling, we always start with reporting in when I learned hypnosis and on the master hypnotherapist, so be careful. What I learned is that anything is possible in the presence of a good rapport. And without rapport, you can ask needs based questions. If you’re offering solutions and you don’t have rapport with somebody, they don’t trust you so they immediately reject your knowledge. So you have to build rapport. And rapport is essential to every single sale, your first sale, which is the first appointment that you get with the person, you need report, but then you need huge amounts of rapport to be able to ask them needs based questions, especially when people have to share their problems and challenges and goals and aspirations because 99% of the adult population, including us, including you, we have fees and projection we have fees of criticism, and we have to have a lot of rapport to be able to share our fees and frustrations, our wants and desires. So it is absolutely critical in no place has ever and that no sale has ever come together without report

Robert Brus 2:46
it absolutely impossible. It’s impossible. People don’t buy off people they don’t like

Daniel Tolson 2:51
what we did, was that what we sell, we might have a product or service but we actually sell a promise. Yeah,

and if I don’t believe you, I’m not gonna give you my money.

Robert Brus 2:58
Yeah, absolutely. So, a lot of people that I talked to about rapport think it’s about, well, you know, it’s not stay outside and so it’s pretty good. You know, a little bit hungry school. Did you get it? Oh, you know, what’s, what’s that you got a picture of like Smithsonian channels on there. You know, I love aviation. I love opera. It’s really kind of 1970s type report, right? You follow the Euro shark support. I’m a sharks fan. Yeah, I hate the sharks, go out there and just run the report. The the report is partly that it’s impossible to not have some of that in a conversation. But that’s not what we’re talking about here is it?

Daniel Tolson 3:37
We might talk a little bit about that.

Robert Brus 3:39
Yeah, you can’t not have that. That’s what I’m saying. That’s definitely part part and parcel of

Daniel Tolson 3:43
it. And through the studies at the University of California, it is important, and it’s only 7%. The words and the common connections are 7%. And we’re going to be very mindful, you know, if I’m a shock supporter and your Panthers supporter, all of a sudden we don’t have republican We got competition here. Yeah. So we got 70% of our poll comes from the woods with us. And we’ll talk about those 38% comes from our tone of voice, right? And 55% comes from our physiology. So maybe it’s a good idea to break this psychology of rapport down, in will give you some really good tips on how to get an idea. She can’t wait to get report, you gotta go straight there immediately. Because what I’ve discovered is that in rapport, you’ve got four seconds to make a very good first impression. That’s whether you’re meeting somebody face to face, you’re meeting them on the telephone, are you meeting them via video call? You got four seconds to make a first impression. And then within 30 seconds, what people do, you do it to me, I do it to you. You’ve done it to us. We haven’t done to you yet because we can see that we have that confirmation bias. So after we’ve seen the person with the first four seconds, then the next 30 seconds, we’re just justifying what we saw. In the first spot, and then what happens is we have this confirmation bias and you’re either

guilty what was the guilty not guilty

if you’re guilty they don’t listen to Yeah, but they will accept you and then you can start the relationship. Very important.

Robert Brus 5:16
So the first four seconds of rapport when we’re face to face, I would correct me if I’m wrong here but

what I see.

Daniel Tolson 5:24
Mate, you look great.

Robert Brus 5:25
you look great. look like a million bucks shop as well. I

Daniel Tolson 5:28
said the first impression the clothes that you when you present yourself is 95%. If you first impression, if we have a look at it today, our clothing covers 95% body now hands are hanging out. Now heads are hanging out. And that’s it in your shoes on your time. So these things are super important. And people judge you know, I was trying to pitch a real estate agent, a $30,000 coaching package, and I went into his office week after week. kept saying, No, no, no. He said, I like you. But this is not for us. But I knew there was some blockage there. And I went in the fifth and final time to present an offer to him. And as we were sitting down, he looked across at me and he said, Daniel, let me tell you a storey. And I said, Okay, what’s the storey said, then your couple of years ago, a young fella, he came to my real estate office, and he told me how prosperous he was. He told me how successful he was and how many sales he had made. He said, but as he said, There, I looked at his suit. And I looked at his suit, and I realised that his suit was made out of polyester. And he said, General, anybody who wears a polyester suit isn’t prosperous. You know, I didn’t they know what polyester was. And I didn’t know you could get different materials for suits and I started to sweat. And I thought to myself, is he talking to me? there? Is he talking about my suit yet? So I left the office without the deal and I went out side, stood next to the car and I opened up the suit and you looked and I looked on the inside.

And I pulled out the tag.

And it was in it said 100% polyester. And our friend Dan. He knew I was wearing a cheap suit. So I quickly rang my wife and me, not Sydney, get the credit card out. Let’s get it down to Westfield’s and I got to buy some new suit. She said, What’s wrong? I said, What’s wrong is what I’m wearing. So we went down, I bought suits, there were $2,000 later bought three of them. And I went back and saw the guy the next week, walked in, sat down on my beautiful woman suit, and he signed the contract and

Robert Brus 7:37
do face to commit.

Daniel Tolson 7:38
And that’s because what you will have is 95% of your body. And if you’re talking about prosperity, you also have to look prosperous yourself.

Robert Brus 7:48
You probably would have noticed that this is the Go All In show but I’m not wearing the Go All In T shirt. And I don’t think that I can turn it off to a show talking about business and Sales and talking about my business and being vulnerable about the challenges that I have in selling myself in a T shirt, a pair of sneakers and a pair of shorts. I can certainly sit on the phone all day and dress like that if I want to because I’m not seeing anybody else and that’s, that’s totally fine. But when it comes to going and visiting with customers and clients, there’s absolutely no way that I’ll do that. And I certainly don’t turn up to sales appointments wearing a T shirt and a pair of sneakers Gary Vee saw that’s just not my style. And you know, I’ve never felt comfortable doing that years ago, I worked in a in a marketing agency in Sydney, one of the biggest marketing agencies in fact, and I would walk up to work like this. I was it I was the director of their it there and I helped them before their online digital marketing projects and packages and we’re working a whole whole lot of really cool stuff with these major blue chip clients. And everybody in the office, all the men in the office wore jeans and a T shirt. And I wore these really cool hip t shirts that they bought from t spring with all these funny things. on there, and I was the only guy that was ever in there in a colour and time. And I always felt like a fish out of water in exist supposed to be this cool marketing agency with ping pong tables and doing all these sorts of things that I would have to go to meetings with other it guys and other networking engineers and they were all dressed like me and I couldn’t turn up to those meetings, dressed in a T shirt and a pair of sneakers like these other guys were in the office. And I was always really uncomfortable when we left the office. And I was dressed like I am now. And we would go to these appointments with these major blue chip clients like Coke, American Express via net these big companies, right? And they wouldn’t be like, we’re not going to the pub bed. We’re going to deal with a client that they just didn’t get. I just didn’t get it. I never It was never comfortable with that.

Daniel Tolson 9:45
Well as a salesperson, you’re also a leader because your client does not know what to do and they have to follow the leader. So when the fibre grade rock out, they truck has a beautiful what colour is it? Red, it’s red. And then the fire fighters, they hop out in the overalls, a blue and they have a badge. And it says Fire Department. Yeah, who’s the uniform and what you wear tells people how to interact with you. So when the fire brigade shop, you don’t feel that you’re going to get arrested. But when the police show up in the light blue shirt, almost like yours, yeah, and the blue pants and they got the guns and their badge on, you know, you’re gonna be in big trouble if you lit the fire.

Robert Brus 10:29
Yes, absolutely.

Daniel Tolson 10:30
So what do you wear tells people what you do? Yep. So imagine going to a doctor and you go in and see a specialist and he’s going to give you a nose job. And he’s there and he’s board shorts and flip flops and he’s cap on backwards. It just doesn’t work. It’ll let him operate on you. No way.

Robert Brus 10:45
No way. He might dress like that after work. That’s fine. That’s fine. You expecting to turn up in scrubs with his hand out on his gloves and he’s always thinking to have you smoke on Yeah, and he’s gonna have

Daniel Tolson 10:54
what’s that thing that they that the mask

they will put in there and then they will To set the stage schedule wise ran the Nick is wise because it’s part of the beautiful. So what do you want your clients to feel? When they look at you? Do? Do you want them to feel that you’re a successful person? Do you want them to address you as a successful person in our ruling businesses dress how you want to be addressed yet, if you want to be spoken to, like a self made millionaire, dress like a self made millionaire, if you want people to take you serious dress for the occasion, don’t over dress and don’t under dress.

Robert Brus 11:35
You know, one of the mistakes that I’ve seen over the years that people make is they would win business. So they would go like this. They’d win business. And then they let their guard down. And they rock up and a T shirt or sneakers, shorts and sometimes like a man Ella, you know, and it’s kind of like

don’t do that.

Daniel Tolson 11:53
I made that mistake. Just don’t do that. Yeah. One of my clients met a Karen one of the top real estate agents in the country. He saw what I bought and I rocked up like this fit every single coaching session. And I encouraged him to change the way he dressed. And one day he changed the way that he dressed. And he had this beautiful suit on and type in his tie was done up. His beard was shaved, His hair was done. And he fixed on zoom in there was dressed casually, in the blood just drained out of his face and he went, what’s going on? Yeah, because I had set the standard. I had taken the afternoon off, but I took a call mine. And when I wasn’t dressed the way he expected me, bang, I lost credibility majorly here. So from that day forward, I made sure that I wore my suit and tie every single day. Because my clients feel better about it. You dress the way you want your audience to feel about them. Yeah, we weren’t really guys and girls to feel sexy. Yeah, that’s what we’re going to dress sexy for you

Robert Brus 12:55
and it feels good to wear nice clothes. It feels good to go to the shops and buy some nice clothes. That you wear to work that feels good to do that

Daniel Tolson 13:02
I had my haircut twice this week, I had a cut on Monday it was on my be to look good for I am an interview on Monday, I wouldn’t got my haircut yesterday, I might be trim yesterday because I wanted you on camera for you. And it’s very important because this is our personal brand. And this is the personal brand that I want people to be associated with. And so once you set the standard, you then have to maintain that standard continuously, you’re gonna have to work hard on it, but you’re gonna have to decide what you want and then stick to it.

Robert Brus 13:31
You know, when when I created the goal in brand I realised that that was just just to be super clear. If you’ve never heard me say this before. I never coined the words go all in that’s not mine that’s been around forever. I think it’s a gambling term maybe from the 1800s or something like that. That has been around forever. All I did was call my business that because it was reflective of the storeys that I was telling on the podcast and here in the YouTube channel of course, and I realised that part of what I needed to do was to create a personal brand So I wanted to be the goal in guy that so I was the guy that interviewed people and told those storeys and did that really cool stuff. And it played out really nicely for me it played out exactly the way that I planned it, but right at the very start so for the people that are new here, you don’t know you would have heard me talk about my partner Sue before she’s a photographer. And I said, Well, I need I need some photos I need I need some stuff. And she said, Well, what do you want? What do you want your brand to represent? And at the time, I’d been listening to a whole lot of this actually, a whole lot of Jocko willing so Jocko will explain a huge inspiration for me and my podcast and he’s ability to do he’s storytelling ability and a whole range of things. And I love this photo of Jocko with the flag and that’s how Jocko kind of looks. I don’t know I never met the guy but that when you see him that’s how he looks. He’s resting face that he’s happy face. And I thought I could do a photo like that with an Ozzy flag that it would be really kind of because I’m an Ozzy patriot I’m a soldier and I’m all of those things that I thought that that would be really nice for me. And so we set the flag up, we got the camera out, we took the photos, and I looked at the photos. And you know what? That was not me. My resting face doesn’t look cranky like that my resting faces have been happy and my demeanour is a bit happier. And amongst all of those photos is a photo of me with my arms folded, and I’ve got like half a kind of cheeky smile on there. And I thought, That’s way more representative of my personality. And I felt like that photo right at the very start of this was the foundation of my personal branding for this business for the goal in business. And it’s held true, because people see that photo and they’re like, wow, we love that picture of you. That’s such a good photo. And even my mom said to me, she said that photo really represents you really well because you’re such a such an Ozzy Patriot, you know, you talk about the military all the time. You’re proud of your service. You’re proud of the country. You’re proud of this country, you love talking about it, and then there’s you kind of smile Being a bit cheeky in front of it, and I thought that didn’t capitalise it. But it gave me the flexibility to move as well, where I could wear a goal in T shirt or I could wear suit. And no, I did it. So it was generic. So I wasn’t painted into a corner of doing one thing or another. I felt like that really worked well for me. What about your personal bread?

Daniel Tolson 16:19
You got a great my, my personal brand is suits and ties in quality suits and ties. And Brian Tracy and I were working on my personal brand. And he said, Daniel, what you need to do is you need to be the best dressed person in the room. If you’re speaking to hundreds of people at a time, you need to set the standard. So we started to change and work with the personal brand and everything that I do every show that I go on, even if it’s the radio. I’m still dressed up in my personal brand. Yeah. And when you go to my Facebook page or you go to my website, you will see that I’m always in suit and tie. There’s always a lapel pin. There’s always a title. There’s always a pocket square the head The same the beads design, and it just stays there. Yeah. And what happens is when people see you dressed the same consistently, in the same clothes, this creates safety. Because it’s a standard and it’s consistent. And when they see that over and over again, they build a relationship with you in they trust it. So when they rock up and they go, there’s Daniel and there he was with Caesar. There he was, with his iPad, it’s the same and it’s an immediate connection. So that helps build rapport. And it’s very important. So once you decide on what your brand is, stick to it and everything you do.

Robert Brus 17:39
And I would add, make no mistake, you You must absolutely. You must absolutely control your brand. Because before people engage with you, they’ve, if they’ve heard of you before, and they’re hearing from you and you’re communicating with him, before they meet you. They will check you out.

Daniel Tolson 17:58
They will judge you.

Robert Brus 17:59
They will check you out. They will judge you though. They don’t want to see the LinkedIn photo of two guys like this. And he’s cropped out of that photo. They want to see a professional LinkedIn photo. It looks like the one that Daniel just showed. They want to. Yes. That’s the usual thing we say, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I love the ones where the missus has been like, half cut out, but she hasn’t been cut out. Why don’t Walters have to have photos like this thought leaders? were they thinking thinking? I’m not sure. I’m really thinking when I’ve got that little advice rarely rarely. But yeah, you must you must control it. I think that’s the other thing as well, you know, and what we’re talking about here is the very first part of rapport. So rapport is really happening even before you meet somebody. And you know, for the last what, 20 minutes we’ve been talking about how to establish rapport with a personal brand, but you’re talking about the first four seconds, absolutely your first you only get one chance to make a first impression Navy paga that up to three Full I’m not doing business with that guy. No chance as soon as like a shower shit. No way I’m doing that as soon

Daniel Tolson 19:05
as they land on your Facebook page, you’re being judged. Yeah. As soon as they jump on the LinkedIn profile, you’re being judged as soon as they look at the email, the header, the body. Yep. And your little tagline, you’re being judged. Absolutely. If you’re guilty, they won’t do business with you. So what you’ll learn is some strategy so should we talk about in OP?

So should we learn some NLP?

Robert Brus 19:44
This is always a mystery for me and these conversations that I have with you about NLP are some of my absolute favourite because he’s the ninja Grandmaster. Always reading some book about some acronyms and yeah, absolutely. So I love it.

Daniel Tolson 19:57
How much do you know about in all playing And I want you to take your knowledge and I want to give you some new knowledge. Because NLP is the study of excellence in OP is understanding what successful people do. And then taking it from a concept and turning it back into a process. So people and you’ve heard this before they say, Go make sales. Going to make sales is a concept, but there’s a process on how to do it. Success is a concept. But there’s a process on how to become successful. rapport is a concept, but we will give you the strategies and the steps to build rapport. So in NOP, what we’ve learned is that rapport is broken down into three parts. First is the words that you use and that equates to 7% of your communication. rapport also involves your tonality in your voice, which was 38% of your communication. And then we have our physiology Which is fully 55% of your communication. So when you’re building rapport with people, first of all, you have to choose your words very carefully. And the best words to use other words that are important to your customer. So Robin, I had been building a relationship, and we were talking about business deals. And I heard Rob, say a word. And he said, Daniel, can we click the ticket? Now, I have never heard anybody else say click the ticket, but I knew because Rob said it. It was important to him

Robert Brus 21:33
as my vernacular, my language.

Daniel Tolson 21:35
So every time I talked to rob that doing businesses, I might, we could click the ticket here, and he’s eyes open and he is pick up and you get an immediate response. And so if you’re using keywords that you’re that are important to your customer, discover what they are, and then use them periodically. You don’t want to mimic people. You want to use them periodically. And what happens is because the way rapport works, Reporters unconscious process. So Rob will hear that pattern. It will register in your subconscious mind and say that words importantly in your life Oh yeah, another client of mine very successful real estate agent in Melbourne, Victoria, he uses the word 100%. If you love something, he says 100%. And when he tells me something that he’s excited

about, I say

100% and he loves it. The reason I do that is because he’s my customer. He’s my friend, and I want to build a relationship with him. Yeah. And we use rapport to intent in to a relationship. We do not use report to manipulate people. If you’re using report to manipulate people, then you’re going to have some very bad karma. Your Why do you use report to help your clients make excellent decisions, including hiring you and using your production services and then if you use it to manipulate people Cameras going to come around, it’s going to watch on the bus.

Robert Brus 23:02
So we’ve got our appearance, we’ve got our words now inflection, what else have we got?

Daniel Tolson 23:08
We’ve got a tonne. And tonne is incredibly important, especially in today’s world. As soon as you pick up the phone, people are going to hear the words you use, but the guy to hear the tone of your voice. And some people speak way too fast. You pick up the phone and say, Hi, Daniel, how you doing today? I’m fantastic. What can I do for you today? And let’s go all in. And all of a sudden, all this content is just being put into your head

Robert Brus 23:29
Oh,

Daniel Tolson 23:31
process and as soon as somebody goes,

you’ve lost report. Yeah, your job as a communicator is to listen to how the other person speaks. And then you can adjust your tone, you know, maybe you’ve got to have a little bit of a higher pitch. Maybe you got to have a bit of a lower pitch. You’ve also got to have a look at the volume, because there’s nothing worse than one of these people who speak very softly and then you got somebody else who’s just wants to speak all the time.

Robert Brus 24:00
Constantly

Daniel Tolson 24:02
do that.

And that’s a big lead. So if that happens, how do you build rapport with that person? Well, you don’t want to do you want to speak loud, but you don’t want to speak lanta? Yeah. Because let’s have a look. And this is the strategy. You can be that big booming voice that you’ve learned from the military. Hmm. And I’m gonna do my little office desk.

Robert Brus 24:19
Yeah, just that those two things. Don’t

Don’t marry the guy. Yeah, let’s give you tell us

what you see here. The most common thing that I used to say as a physical training instructor in the Australian Army was how you over there?

Daniel Tolson 24:35
What What did you say?

Robert Brus 24:36
Hurry up?

Daniel Tolson 24:37
Could you talk a little bit softer?

Robert Brus 24:39
No, I can’t. The infantry guy doesn’t know how to talk softer. I want to be your customer.

Daniel Tolson 24:43
Yeah, it doesn’t work, right? It doesn’t work. But what happens here in building rapport, if that’s important to your customer, you need to have behavioural flexibility. And this is one of the five principles of success and you can learn about this in my book, The five principles of success, and it’s called behavioural flexibility. So If you want to get rapport with somebody who does have that style of voice, you have to change what you’re doing. So give it to me again. Give me that play to voice. Give it to me again. Hurry up. Rob, let’s hurry up my let’s get the deal done.

Robert Brus 25:15
That’s exactly it. I mean, let’s do it. Let’s do it. I’m the Go All In guy,

Daniel Tolson 25:18
boom. So you could adjust very quickly in the mall flexibility of behaviour that you have, the more sales that you’re going to make. And if you say to yourself, I can’t do that. What you’re saying is you don’t have behavioural flexibility. And you’re also saying that you don’t want to make sales. So you have to adjust. And it’s like somebody who speaks slowly. People speak slowly, because it’s important to them. But if you’re speaking really fast, and you have them, they’ll just go. I don’t want to do business with somebody who speaks fast all the time.

Robert Brus 25:56
Yeah, it’s very it’s very confusing, isn’t it? Because you delivers a real mixed message especially on the on the phone one of the fun. One of the really super fun things that I’ve been playing with in the last couple of months as I’ve developed my podcasting voice because I’ve got a deeper voice than you and I know when I get closer to a microphone I can, I can put on a deeper voice. I learned to use my voice like that when I was an instructor in the military, you’re shouting at people from 300 metres away type thing. And one of the things that I would do is when I would leave a voicemail for people, I will play with that a lot. And you know, I think it’s really important that you have fun with what you do in sales. I think it’s really important and I would leave a voicemail and it goes like this you might have if you know me and you’ve engaged with me you might have even received this voicemail, I would say Did I Daniel it’s Robert from the go all in podcast How you doing today? I really quick message I wanted to touch base with you and just follow up on that email that I sent to you. Why don’t you give us a call when you get a sec My phone number is and I would use pacing and I would use inflection and I would use that The the deeper john laws go all in words and it’s kind of like fun to do because every time I do it, I do it. And then when someone picks the phone up, I do it to him on the phone because it’s like, Hi, this is Jess. Hi, Jesse. This is a Robert from the go all in podcast, how are you? And she’s like, Oh, hi, Robert, how are you? And I kind of suck pattern interrupt, and I brace your attention. And so I’m really well, thank you, you know, just speaking really well. Thanks, Jess, it’s great to speak to you if you got a second or only Kp a minute, but really, really super quick. And I’ll go into whatever it is that I’m saying like that. And it’s been a hell of a lot of fun to do that. And at first, I think at first I did it because I’d been recording like back to back podcasts and like three podcasts a day for five days straight or something. And I just picked up the phone and that’s how I spoke to someone and he realised, and then I realised what I was doing. And then I was like that reaction, this reaction. And because you can’t see the person and they’ve seen me either on YouTube on my website or on my podcast or on my LinkedIn and they’re like, Are there that goal in guy and it’s really impactful the go all in. Hi, it’s Robert from the go all in podcast so you can hear what Rob’s doing with these Tyrone is dropping it down in the last word should always be the deepest one and we call this walking down the stairs.

Daniel Tolson 28:18
And this is what powerful communicators do.

Robert Brus 28:21
But I didn’t realise and do it.

Daniel Tolson 28:24
So what you got here is you’ve got the time and you’ve got to adjust it and you can speak really high if you want to, and you can speak hi to somebody over here on your right hand side then later on, you can take a call over here on the left hand side and you can drop it down. Um, so your job is to raise it up when somebody has a higher voice and then you can drop it down to a mid tone and then really low for the others. And this has a profound impact on the nervous system. And when your voice matches and mirrors days, that’s immediate report. So somebody speak slowly and you slow down. Your voice is Report. If they speak really fast, and you start to speak really fast, we just have a great conversation the other trick over coffee, and that’s what they do in you have that flexibility. Yeah, that’s report because we look at each other and say, birds together flock together like attracts like, yeah. So when you’re like them, it’s a great compliment. The reaction that it has in the nervous system is that if, if you’re got this big, booming voice and they got this little voice, what happens is their body goes into a state of shock. Yeah. But if you start to talk them at the same pace and volume, then their body starts to relax. And there is 30 and 40 years of research, some of the best research coming out of University of California. Now, this,

Robert Brus 29:43
that’s really interesting. rapport is definitely something that you need to establish at the start of a conversation and at the initiation of a sale. But I don’t think it’s something that ends it doesn’t end it definitely doesn’t end after you’ve made the siloed for the reasons that we discussed. You know, you rock up dress like that and then suddenly turn up in a singlet, you know, you what, you lost your ball, and you’re losing the customer a little bit, and then things are going wrong there. And that could be the beginning of the end if you’re not careful.

Daniel Tolson 30:10
The other part of report is physiology, in 55% of your communication is your physiology. It’s the space that you occupy in you can do things with your body that really offend people. And I, and this guy was in my personal space, and he’s breath smelt like dog shit in the bag, and I was leaning back like this against the wall, yeah, that he occupied my personal space. So when it comes to physiology, you have to be mindful of how you interact with other people’s space,

Robert Brus 30:47
because you can ruin rapport. They might be a really great guy you want to do business with then he gets up in your space and ruins it. Oh, absolutely.

Daniel Tolson 30:52
Yeah. So in physiology, you have to be constantly looking at your customer. Because sometimes you might stand Too far away from something. So if you take a step back, automatically, it feels like there’s too much distance between it’s

Robert Brus 31:06
hard to have a conversation at a metre. If it’s just a little bit if we went toe to toe, yeah, its nose to nose. And you told me as well, so yeah, yeah, it’s too much.

Daniel Tolson 31:15
But sometimes it’s just turning your body on a slight angle. So when we’re this far apart, I can still talk, I can still move, and it’s really comfortable to have a conversation. Yeah. But it also changes. You could just be standing on the wrong side of somebody. So we might be comfortable if I’m to your left. But other times, you could go to the right hand side and it’s not comfortable. Really what? Just because of personal preference. We don’t know rush. So let’s have a guy that says go this way.

See what can happen is

Robert Brus 31:41
I’m ambidextrous somewhere, right. It’s definitely it definitely feels different.

Daniel Tolson 31:45
Yeah, yeah. So what happens is, you’ve got to adjust the angle. Yeah. So that feels better for me.

Robert Brus 31:50
feels better for me to win now that we’re facing each other.

Yeah, this feels a bit funny.

Daniel Tolson 31:56
Yeah. So you’ve always got to be mindful of where you stay Standing next to people.

Robert Brus 32:01
So what about in the funny networking scenario when you’re just getting to know somebody, you’re building rapport with people, and and you’re in this circumstance, maybe for the guys watching, and as a man if I was a female, and the female gets a little bit too close to you, because that does happen, and that has, that has happened to me, and I don’t know, maybe I’m missing all the cues or something like that. But sometimes people get a little bit closed, you know, and sometimes, people are a little bit touchy. Hi, good to see you. Hi. Did you know that they did that? And they’re like, Yeah, well, they will they lock in closing their body language completely or something like that? What What should a guy do if a girl gets a little bit too? Kind of hands? You’re a little bit too close. Because, you know, all jokes aside, I don’t know what to do. What in this politically correct world that we do. Am I supposed to put my hands behind my back? Am I supposed to get like that or, I don’t know. There’s like all sorts of cues and it’s different in a in a yelling situation and it isn’t a social situation, because it’s a very dangerous place to be because you can just lose it like that. And then your opportunity is gone.

Daniel Tolson 33:08
Well, everybody’s watching. Yeah. And I can see you on the other side of the room. And when you’re at a networking event, everybody is watching. So what happens in this comes from the science of NLP is that there’s 2 million bits of information coming through your five senses every second incredible. And we only process about 134 bits per second consciously. So just because you’re not paying attention to it consciously, the rest of your nervous system is still picking it up. So if you’re on the other side of the room, and somebody is getting too close to you, they’ll still be passing judgement on you from the other side of the room. But if you come across awkward, they’ll still be picking up on that and they’ll say, I don’t want to stand next to that person. So you’ve got to be a moving target. You have to maintain rapport with the other person, but you also need to have some flexibility. There’s some guys who like to put their arm, the hand on your shoulder, and they talk to you like this. And if you want to build rapport, you’re going to be okay with it. But here’s the trick. After they’ve done it to you, it gives you permission to do it to them. So

Robert Brus 34:14
you can mirror that you can mirror that a little bit, man, it was just such an awesome thing that we did, it was so good, incredible. Yeah.

Daniel Tolson 34:19
And so you start to use this because it’s a cute in a put the hand here, it’s a cue for you. So if the ladies standing square on to you, and that’s comfortable for your customer, it’s immediate permission for you to do it as well, right? But if you’re uncomfortable, what you can do is you can subtly move your body language, and you might just put your hands across here and they will recognise it unconsciously. And they’ll probably just make a little step back and open up a little bit. So be very subtle. With the biggest you want to keep rapport. You want to do business with this person, but you don’t want others to pick up on your nervousness or that vibe. So be very subtle that just played by him. It also comes with pain shakes. Yeah, it does. It does dominate. So when it comes to handshakes, this is part of physiology, you’ve got to have a solid handshake. And it’s got to be firm, you’re not trying to squeeze and overpower the person. If you do that automatically, their unconscious mind says this person’s trying to bang, last report. If you come in, in your have a dead fish, and call them fish, they say this person’s wake up and they pass judgement on you. If you shake the hand, and then you put your hand on top, this is called a handedness. And again, it’s trying to overpower the person. And these signals are picked up by the other person. And they’re also picked up by everybody else around Yeah. So you got to have a lot of flexibility here

Robert Brus 35:50
is that this one? It’s a very fine balancing act, isn’t it? Yeah. That’s a politician politicians to them. How do you feel about that one? Well, if it was the Prime Minister, I’d probably feel like a bit. If it was Money in a business circumstance or networking circumstance, I’d be like

Daniel Tolson 36:04
to be a bit weird. Very weird. So physiology is important. Space is important. posture is important. Now, if Robin and I talking to one another in your arms crossed, it doesn’t mean he’s closed. It just means that’s comfortable for him at this time. So what I’ll do to build rapport, is just cross my arms as well do that as well. What happens is that our bodies look over at one another, our subconscious mind says, Hey, we’re the same. And it takes out all of that and laziness,

Robert Brus 36:32
really subtle little cues are they really, really subtle. Ladies and gentlemen, if you like what you seeing here today, make sure you hit the subscribe button right there. Give us a thumbs up and make sure you ring the bell as well because we’ve got plenty more content like this and we don’t want you to miss out on it. Hopefully you’re getting some value out of what we’re talking about here today. Oh no, it’s a hell of a lot of fun for me. I wanted to ask you a question about handshakes and and how to do that and you will see a politician extend the arm as I walk in, and then I would come close like this and often put their hand on and look at a camera and shake hands like that. And it’s all a setup, of course, but just their body language is long at arm’s length and they bring themselves in like that. Is that is that a good cue to do you kind of shaking hands and bringing people closer to you, what you want to do is you want to look at the other person, and forget what you’ve read in the books. Just do what the other person does. So if

Daniel Tolson 37:26
you want to build rapport with them, and they come in and their arms stiff, I’ll do the side and then you do the same because that’s important to them. And that’s report right? I look at you and go. He’s the same as when he’s just like me. Yeah, yes. Birds of a feather flock together.

Robert Brus 37:38
And what about drawing somebody in?

Daniel Tolson 37:41
Yeah, here’s what you can do. You can also match and mirror their facial features. And so Rob’s a smiling guy, then he’s smiling and told me Hey, man, hey,

Robert Brus 37:50
you know, I yeah, what you do is you start to show a better opportunity.

Daniel Tolson 37:53
You start to do that because it’s important to him. He doesn’t naturally he won’t even register consciously You’re doing this, but he will feel good. But let’s do it again. Yeah. With a.

Robert Brus 38:05
Yes, Your Honour.

Daniel Tolson 38:07
Yeah, I’m great. Yeah. It’s funny.

Robert Brus 38:09
My brain is tuned immediately to recognise it that was like that made you that you your co star.

I can’t do it. It

doesn’t. It’s not me.

Daniel Tolson 38:22
You got to be mindful of how you do it. So if you’re meeting somebody, and they put their hand on top of yours, yeah, you can do it. I can go Hey.

Yeah, and that’s it. Even the subtle head nods if somebody gives you a little head nod I’m just mentioned mirror the head note.

Robert Brus 38:37
What about the phone this of my handshake because sometimes I go in and somebody has got a voice and I feel like I’m in a wrist lock, or he’s about to put me into every slot sort of thing. So I’m sort of like it about that level.

Daniel Tolson 38:49
It’s got to be firm. But if somebody else is a little bit firmer, what you can do immediately is you can just yours up right in because if your handshake is first I will register that if I make mine firmer that will say, this person’s like me. But you’ve also got to be careful because in Australia where we have so many different nationalities, yes. So if you’re meeting somebody from the subcontinent and they have a loose handshake, yes, do not try to educate them on how to shake hands correctly, if that’s important to them. That’s important them and if they want to hold your hand for a couple of minutes, that’s okay. You have to have the behavioural flexibility. Because my best man Shema, wherever wanna. He’s from Ben tada in Sri Lanka, and when I first met him, he shook my hand

Robert Brus 39:37
and hold hands like this. He held hands.

Daniel Tolson 39:39
And he held hands and he held hands. I got it on my hands, and by holding hands and I thought, maybe there’s something to learn here. Yeah. And and later on, what I realised was that he was picking up on my energy, right, and that was the first interaction. He went on to becoming the best man at my wedding, and I become the best man at his wedding. MIZ so you’ve got Have this flexibility we call this sensory acuity. So be mindful when you’re shaking ladies hands as well. Don’t crush the hand. But if they give you a firm handshake, give them a firm handshake.

Robert Brus 40:12
I am, you ain’t gotta have good IYIM at the webbing of your thumb, because I feel like if I get you there, and if I get you the good claps, and we can, we can, cloud feels good. It feels good when you do that with a god. And if you do that with a guy that you don’t know, that feels pretty good too. And I feel like that that creates a little snappy connection like that. It’s kind of fun.

Daniel Tolson 40:37
So always be flexible in your behaviours. And the other thing is, how long do you hold the handshake for until the other person Let’s go. You’re not important. They are the most important right? Your customer always comes before you. If the customer wants to succeed, you have to put their best wishes before yours You have to serve that night. If they want to hold your Five minutes and chat you and that’s important to them. Do it. Do it

Robert Brus 41:05
beautiful beautiful

all right hopefully you’re getting something out of these videos I think handshaking I don’t think you can over source that putting at all. I think it’s a really really important topic to discuss because it affects each and every single sales person out there men and women old and young. And it is the beginning and the foundation of building rapport. What you look like in shaking hands shaking hands

Daniel Tolson 41:40
started the conversation. That’s the end of the conversation.

Robert Brus 41:43
Some people get a little bit handy in a in a conversation. Hi. Glad to see you guys. Glad to meet you. But then some people get a little bit kissy in there

Daniel Tolson 41:52
when you kiss me. Because I don’t know it’s a bit awkward. We talked about behavioural flexibility,

Robert Brus 41:58
but awkward violence. Is this not the right social circumstance for many of your

customer?

Does that happen to you? Do sometimes the customers you meet feel like they know you? I know it happens to me. Because people see me on my podcast, they see me on your YouTube channel. They see me in social media. And I’ve even been waiting for customers in the in a in a place recently, in fact, last week down at the local hotel here in Granada, where I met customers. I was sitting there and I was with somebody and I could see somebody lurking around because I was still in a meeting and that person left and they came overnight and I said, I saw you straight away. I feel like I know you and they gave me a hug and they gave me a kiss and I was like Hi. And that’s you know, checking you out online before they meet you. And I think maybe because they listening to my stuff, my content, they’re seeing my videos. They feel like they know me and by the way if that’s how you feel about this stuff, and you feel like you know me and Daniel kiss Rob and kiss when so As well, right? You’re right, because this is us just being us where this is not an on camera persona or on podcast persona. This is us. And and often I have people say to me, I feel like I know you, Rob. Well you do. If you spend any amount of time listening to my podcast, or watching my content or seeing engaging in my socials, you will feel like you know, somebody and you actually do

Daniel Tolson 43:21
you know me really well. So it’s really good. We spoke about that before, this is the new model of selling. So you know, say 40% of your time is about building rapport. So you build rapport online, you build rapport, offline, in what has to happen is that your customer has to look at you in three ways. One, they have to look at you as their educator, somebody who teaches them how to achieve a goal or to overcome a problem. So that’s the first part. The second part is they’re going to look at you as a friend. If they build a relationship online offline, online offline with you the People assume that they know you before, you know, it’s like here you will know more about us before we know more about you. Absolutely. And that’s what we want. We want to have a friendship with you. So we just opened with natural in, what happens is when they met you, they say, Hey, I know Rob, and so you’re going to be ready for that. And then finally, they want to see you as their consultant in their advisor. So what has to happen for successful selling, you have to be their friend. Yeah, you have to be their teacher, and you have to be their advisor. And when you do that, you can increase your sales by 10 or 20 times in the next 90 days.

Robert Brus 44:37
One of the really great things that I’ve learned to do in the last couple of months comes from a guy named Oren class. For what do this Yes, IRRN class has been a huge influence in my life, particularly in selling and he wrote a book years ago called Pitch Anything and he wrote a new book recently called flip the script. And hold on your hats Ladies and gentlemen, my one of my favourite authors are in glass. He’s coming on the golden podcast next week. So that’s a big one. For me, thank you, thank you. So it’s amazing what podcasting and YouTube can do for you. It opens up incredible doors and it just allows you to meet the people that you really influenced by in our lives. So it’s really going to be really good. But one of the one of the great things that are in talks about in his process of building rapport, and the other really call it building rapport, it’s about building on the relationship. He quoted talks about it more in that context. And he uses a thing called a status tip off. And the status tip off is a is a form of rapport, where you, you don’t know me, and I don’t really know you personally know, I know that I want to sell something to you. But you don’t know. If you want to buy from me because you don’t know anything about me. You might have your guard down, what’s wrong got to sell for me, what is this? And if I start talking to you, in your language, at your level with your vernacular, it makes it look like I’m the same as you. So the way that you described it before, can we ticket, Rob, we can click the ticket on this one that’s like a status tip off, that’s a form of status tip off. And what it can, what it can do, I think that’s a really fast way to help you, they will report is you know a little bit about this customer, you know a little bit about what it is that you’re trying to sell to them, you sort of, you might loosely understand what they need. But maybe this is a discovery meeting, maybe this is a little bit further down the sales funnel. But the point is, if you go in to talk to a bunch of analysts, like you’re going to talk to the CEO, you’re going to fall on your face, you need to talk to the analyst the same way you’re going to talk to the analyst, and you need to get your presentation, your delivery, your language and your vernacular at that level. So I think it’s really, really super important. When you’re going to go and sell something to somebody, anybody, whoever you’re selling to, do you understand who’s going to be in the room, and I’ve been in places before where there’s the CEO, CFO, CIO. Then there’s the marketing person in the payoffs person and a lot man, I have to be five different characters. Well, it’s not that you have to be five different characters, you need to be able to speak five different languages. And if you can communicate on those levels for those people with just little subtle nuances, I love the idea of that status tip off. And I think it’s a really important thing that you can use that helps you get immediate rapport. And because what it does is it doesn’t trigger a fight or flight, a goal might what it does is it triggers for you, or that person knows, they know what I’m, he knows what I’m talking about him, he gets me, he understands me, and he can talk about those things. So the status tip off for me has been a really, really fun thing that I’ve used in my business in the last couple of months. And maybe to give a practical example of the status tip off. So in the podcast booking agency that I would run, I would I would speak to people on the phone and I would ask them the question and sometimes I’d say it more as a statement than a question but often I would ask it as a question. Then I would say to someone might have you have you. Have you spent 500 bucks on Facebook ads before? Not got a return?

Daniel Tolson 48:08
Yeah, like 50 grand.

Robert Brus 48:10
I know. sucks, right? Have you ever spent 500 bucks on Google ads and not got a return? Never. Have you ever spent money on advertising and got a return? Really? But yeah, you probably have at some point, right? Yeah. So what I’m doing day when I do that is on it’s a form of empathy. And I just go to the next level and what I the way that I kind of type that next level and segue into the next piece is I say to people, like my feel your pain, 500 bucks straight out the door. And you know, for the businesses out there that have the unicorns that put 500 bucks in and get 700 bucks out, they still put 600 bucks back in and pull 900 out and then they put 900 back in and pull 1000 now they’re putting their money back in and they’re getting money. That’s coming in. Back with babies, which is good. It’s awesome, right? And I have seen that happen a lot. That’s the exception, not the norm. So what I say to them is, if I come across that which happens, I say to them, are you controlling your message? Like the ad that you ride? Are you saying that was that the copywriter or the person running your ads? And inevitably they got, what’s the copywriter? That’s the person running the campaigns aren’t in that order. So why don’t you get on the podcast and control your message, get your get your brand out and get it out there make it happen. And I take them through a gentle process of a bit of empathy, getting them to be a little bit agreeable. But the reality is, it’s all the reason it works is because it’s factual. And it’s a gentle way to create rapport. It’s a gentle way to create a little bit of a bond with somebody because you create a I think, if you ever going to build a team, and you have a team people say, what is teamwork, what is leadership? And people ask me that All the times my military background, and I say the best way to build a team is to suffer in adversity together. When you do hard things together, that brings the team together when you achieve really hard things that brings people together. And when your Facebook campaign sucks, and my Facebook campaign sucks, we can both go over here and tell everybody how much Facebook socks and we’ve got that report. And that’s a that’s a form of a status tip off. What do you think?

Daniel Tolson 50:25
Well, I like it, Tim, empathy. If there is no empathy, there is no sale. Because your customer wants to know that you understand their problem. And when you can articulate the problem better than they can articulate it even better. And what Rob was talking about here is that in social intelligence, 85% of your success in business comes down to that ability to walk a mile in their shoes. You have to you have to say yes, I have been there. Yes, I know how that feels.

Robert Brus 50:55
Yeah, very nice. Very nice. A lot of fun too. So I asked you What is it that you’re doing to build rapport with your customers? How are you doing? What does your personal brand look like? By the way, if you scroll down in the show notes, here, we’ve got a link with that, believe it a little bit of paper here somewhere somewhere here in your little fancy, should we should we get at the secret, so let’s get it out there. So some of the stuff that we talked about in personal branding here before and there’s millions of things that you can find online about that there’s millions of videos you can see here in YouTube as well, of course, but we’re going to little a download here that you can grab. So if you just scroll down there in the show notes, just click the link down or take it over to the website, pop your email in and you’ll get some of these really great documents that we’ve got here for you. They’re talking about growing your business using your personal brand. And there’s a whole lot of content. There’s really good, interesting stuff, right? If you want to be able to sell more,

Daniel Tolson 51:49
if you want to sell faster if you want to be able to sell easier. You have to have a personal brain, the personal brain builds immediate rapport and then it also lowers bias. resistance. So if you’re getting a lot of resistance to your offer, it probably means that your personal brand is not on point. Yep. And we’ve had more than 2 million incredible people utilise this in their sales careers, and they’re getting phenomenal results. The difference of having no brand, and a personal brand is the difference of riding a bike and driving a Ferrari.

Yeah, the personal brand will get you to your sales goals faster and easier. And much more sexier, too.

Robert Brus 52:29
Absolutely. And in the last probably nine months, I must have done about six or seven podcasts with some personal branding experts. So make sure you check out the goal and show on iTunes or on Google podcast if you’ve got an Android device. And there’s a whole lot in there about personal branding, some really interesting people, mostly women, mostly women doing personal branding, not a lot of guys doing that which I find quite interesting to listen to the ladies when it comes to marketing and sales 85% of all sales globally. Late Night by women there you go and see what happens is women choose very intuitively in the studies of men’s men’s and women’s intuition is that men’s and women’s intuition is identical. But the difference is women listen to this and men don’t.

Daniel Tolson 53:16
So marketing advice make sure you take your marketing materials your personal brand and ask the important females in your world that TV playback

Robert Brus 53:26
You know, there’s one really interesting thing that the frog it all of those podcasts about personal branding that kind of I never really thought off before because I think a personal brand I don’t know about you watching this about as an entrepreneur or as a business owner, you need to dress a certain way and you need to stand for something. But all of the people that I work with on those shows talked about personal branding from the employees perspective, okay. And they kind of when I asked them about you know, you’ve got a business you’re an entrepreneur, how should you be what you supposed to dress for success and all that sort of stuff, okay, of course, but what the context of what they’re talking about If you’re an employee, and you’re watching this, this is that’s highly, highly important for you as well. And it’s about what is it that you stand for? What is it that you’re trying to achieve in your life? And how are you adding back value back to the company that you’re working with and working for? What are the values that you stand for, and that those, that value piece I found really interesting. That’s the like the foundation of your personal brand. And that’s what we’re talking about before with the photo of me with my arms folded kind of smoking, cheeky smoke with a flag, that’s a form of personal brand. So you know, that’s, I’m on the Ozzy patriots, they know that’s, that’s a value right there. And I’m checking in on having a little bit of fun. That’s definitely some values, life’s going to be fun, it’s going to be enjoyable and what you’re doing like that as well. So don’t pay lip service to personal branding, if you work for somebody. And if you work in a warehouse driving around and a forklift is a personal brand important to you. Yeah, it is. It is like what values do you stand for?

Daniel Tolson 54:56
Your personal brain does not limit you

know, does not limit to you whatsoever. I love that. I love that flexible.

Yeah, I was in real estate and selling a lot of homes, and I’d wear a suit and a tie and I went around to a house and this gentleman wanted to sell his house and I walked in and those at Cloud smoke was like walking into Snoop Dogg’s and there he was, and he had dreadlocks and it was smoking. He’s bomb. Yeah. And I walked in he’s in a coma.

So I just adapted build rapport is he doing this so mine and I just adapted and he loved it. He said, you want to follow the bomb? And I said no thanks but let’s sign the contract.

Yeah, he was okay because there was no judgmental ism then I had my brain he had his brand and we just created report.

Robert Brus 55:44
Yeah, it’s a really, really important thing. But we’ve covered off a lot on the show here about reporters this and more to go.

Daniel Tolson 55:51
Well, there’s always more but I think they might have to go over to the

Robert Brus 55:54
to the video over there somewhere to the website. Definitely go to go over and get that

Daniel Tolson 55:58
definitely got to get you posted on brain Solange today

Robert Brus 56:01
Absolutely. And if you’re watching what you’re seeing here, don’t forget to hit that subscribe button, give us a thumbs up and ring the bell so you don’t miss an episode and some more videos right out there. So we’ll see

we’ll see you over there.