Podcast Interview – Win Sales Now EP#7 with Rob Brus & Daniel Tolson

Robert Brus 0:09
Well, g’day everyone. Welcome to Win Sales Now. I’m Robert Brus

Daniel Tolson 0:13
and I’m Daniel Tolson. Mate, how are you doing?

Robert Brus 0:16
Very well, very well.

Daniel Tolson 0:17
Looking sharp.

Robert Brus 0:17
You too.

Daniel Tolson 0:18
Are you trying to match a mirror?

Robert Brus 0:20
I’m not sure if it’s working.

Daniel Tolson 0:21
You’re trying to build rapport.

Robert Brus 0:22
I need a couple more. I need an inch or two more. I’m not wearing shoes you’re wearing you gotta take your shoes off.

Daniel Tolson 0:27
Never take the RM Williams off.

Robert Brus 0:28
Leave them on.

Great, she’s great.

How you doing everyone? I hope you’re well. This is the wind sales now and go all in show. It’s great to have you here. If you’re a first time viewer, or listener of this show, welcome. It’s great to have you here. This show is all about practical sales tips that are going to help you win more sales now because when you win more sales, you have more revenue in your business, you have more cash flow, you have more money, more prosperity and you’ll have a better business in less excuses.

Daniel Tolson 1:00
No excuses I don’t have the time I don’t have the money I can’t afford it works for everybody else except me. All those things disappear.

Robert Brus 1:07
So you’re going to walk away from today’s video slash podcast with a whole lot of practical tips that you can apply into your business and into your sales process right away and I know you’re going to love what we’ve got going on here a lot of it you might already know be just forgot to apply. So this might be a little reminder of some of the things that you already know and some of this stuff you might have not heard before. There’s some really big words here on the on the pages

Daniel Tolson 1:31
like trying to steal my idea and

Robert Brus 1:32
NLP and emotional stuff and all this really cool stuff here that we’re going to share with you. If you’re returning to the channel. Welcome back. It’s great to have you here. Make sure you hit that subscribe button, ring the bell and give us a thumbs up if you like what you see today. And don’t forget to leave some comments down below as well because Daniel and I will see those and we reply to all of those and we really enjoyed the feedback that’s been coming our way recently so keep that coming tonight show is all about

Daniel Tolson 2:00
Well, it’s all about identifying the problem that the customer is what we talked about in the previous episode was building rapport. And rapport is 40% of the sales process. Yeah. And if you don’t have rapport, you can ask needs based questions. So today’s show is about learning how to identify the clients problem. If there is no problem, there is no sale. So we’re going to get clear on that. But one of our personal one colour colour might call it an agenda is to give you more practical ideas per minute than any other podcast or YouTube channel out there. And your job is to take these ideas and implement them because in my experience with 30 years of sales, and Rob’s lifetime of experience in sales, is that if you apply one of these ideas, you will get an immediate result. You might double your appointments, you might double your sales, you might even double your income. So take the idea and apply it and then share your results.

Robert Brus 2:57
I got a quick question before we start further beta. watching their and for you For you watching there. I’ve got a question. When was the last time you did some sales training? When was the last time you read a book or listen to a podcast or an audio book or did some sales training. I know for me, it’s something that I do frequently throughout the week. I have a mixed bag of like a mixed bag of lollies they get from the corner shop of things that I listened to. I listened to a whole lot of like a war related podcast because I’m a war storey right as an ex infantry guy. I listened to a lot of relationship based podcast, believe it or not, and I always always listen to something to do with digital marketing and sales, because you got to stay ahead of that curve. And I really think that if you don’t, don’t constantly stay abreast of those things, your your skill set will decay because things change. So particularly in the digital marketing space because it’s a nice crossover between sales and marketing. They’re like that and there’s always something to be learned from marketing new products and services online. In the real world in sales. What about you do you do constant education yourself?

Daniel Tolson 4:00
Every single day, every day, every single day, the world’s most successful salespeople they practice. They train for two to three hours every single day. It’s a lot run by focus on sales, they go through their presentations and they practice their questions. Yeah, think about a Formula One driver. They practice dying, dying out when they’re not in the motor vehicle. They’re doing visualisations and they’re in the simulators ever the simulators, and what you’ve got to do is you need to practice every single day, you have to treat this as a profession. You could not imagine a multi million dollar athlete not practising or warming up on the daily basis. Yeah, and

Robert Brus 4:41
if you want to be successful in sales, and you want to make millions of dollars going to do the same thing, you can do the same thing.

Daniel Tolson 4:45
The latest research shows that every two and a half years your knowledge becomes redundant by 50%. So if you’re not constantly topping up the tank with new information, new knowledge, new strategies, new skill You’re actually falling behind. So congratulations for watching this by watching this we already know that you are in the top 10% of sales people globally or you’re about to me because the people in the bottom 90% don’t watch videos like this with all this excellent content they don’t watch it. They assume everything’s gonna be okay. Yeah, what good question. Why do you buy insurance for your motor vehicle? Well, I’m a good driver. I’m not gonna have a stack

Robert Brus 5:26
someone else is going to run into me that’s what you

Daniel Tolson 5:28
assume you’re a good driver. Yeah. And you assume that nobody else is as good as us. Right insure yourself so that if they hit you

Robert Brus 5:36
protected. We were joking before my brother and I years ago when we used to ride motorbikes, big sports bikes and whatnot, he he joked and said, I you know, I’d ride my bike ride a motorbike in a pair of board shorts if I could, because I’m not going to fall off the motorbike. I’m not going to have a stack of never fallen off. I’m not going to fall off. I don’t intend to fall off. And the reality is I wear a helmet pair of gloves and a leather jacket and dress properly. So I don’t if I get knocked off by Somebody else, I’ll be protected. So absolutely true. The analogies transfer into sales. Absolutely.

Daniel Tolson 6:05
When was the last if you draw, when was the last time that you practice your drawing? When was the last time you had a driving lesson? In just because you’re driving every day? That is not practice? No, that’s just doing what you already know to the Yeah. So what are you doing with your sales career? Are you practising your sales scripts every day? If you’re not start tonight, if you’re not practising your closing techniques, stop and practice them. Because what you’ll find is that for every time that you practice them, you remember them and when you get into that situation, they just roll off your tongue very easily. So the more you practice, the better you going to become. And practice is the son of the professional, unprofessional people. They play video games, they swipe left, they swipe right, they watch this, they’re distracted. So you watch it, you do the right thing

Robert Brus 6:57
well done for being here. By the way, thank you for being here. We really We appreciate your support. Should we get into what you got some really really good stuff. There’s there’s a whole lot of notes scribbled on the on the pad here. But identifying the problem in a sales scenario is really, really important. Now, how does that translate for you? On the other side of this watching us think about the context of what you’re talking about? Have you ever tried to present a solution to a customer? Before you really knew what their problem was? I know that I’ve been a bit of an amateur here and there every now and then and definitely, definitely done that as well. And the product that I have at the moment and in my business that I sell where I’m selling guest access on to other people’s podcast is a real discretionary spend. So people are like, really interested in the novelty factor of Yeah, I’d love to appear on a podcast, what show will I go on? And I go through my sales pitch and I do my thing, and often I forget to ask why they want to do that, because I don’t really know. I know why. They will. is because I see the value in it because it’s better to spend your money on going on a podcast than it is to spend on social media advertising that’s not converting. And even if it is converting, you’re going to put it back in there. And people will love the idea of taking control of their message. And I get why they buy I understand that that’s easy to understand. And people get that, but our might be forget to ask why they want to buy it. And that’s a bit of a mistake.

Daniel Tolson 8:25
We gotta learn to identify the problem. And we’re going to give you a concept now and the steps on how to do this. And once you start to sell like a doctor, you can double and triple your sales in the next 21 days. But Daniel

Robert Brus 8:38
selling like a doctor sounds boring.

Daniel Tolson 8:41
Let me ask you this, Rob. If you What if you walk into the doctor and said might take those pills.

pills, take the pills.

Robert Brus 8:48
The you don’t know what’s wrong with me.

Daniel Tolson 8:51
I see people like you all day every day. I’ve just looked at you take the pills,

Robert Brus 8:55
what’s in the pills

Daniel Tolson 8:56
that maybe I just give the same things to everybody with your promo

Robert Brus 8:59
You don’t know what my problem is. So how do you know what pills to give me?

Daniel Tolson 9:03
Trust me, I’m a doctor.

Robert Brus 9:05
Trust me, I’m a salesman.

Daniel Tolson 9:07
So what we know is that die. That prescription before diagnosis is malpractice. And the doctors creed is premium non Macau right, make sure you run that down premium, non Macau, right. And that means never knowingly do harm. So if you’re offering solutions to a client, before you’ve identified the problem, this is malpractice. And there’s royal commissions taking place in Australia, because of incompetent sales people and because of malpractice. So what you’ve got to learn to do is to learn to sell professionally. Now many of you are three step formula here. The first part of the doctor sale is an examination. What happens is you go and see the doctor and he checks your vital signs. He checks you blood pressure, each extra temperature. He checks your heart right. He puts these little torch on books in your eyes, he says open your mouth and say, ahh, any chicks you bottle songs. And there’s about five to seven vital signs that the doctor should check at the side as part of the examination. The second part of the doctor’s sale is a diagnosis. And you’ve got to get to do you need to do this when you’re identifying your clients problems, you have to ask good questions. And then you need to run a diagnostic. In my business, we have an emotional quotient assessment. And this takes the client through a series of questions to identify their strengths and weaknesses in the levels of emotional intelligence. And that’s my diagnostic. And that’s equivalent to an X ray. It’s equivalent to a blood test. It’s equivalent to an MRI.

Robert Brus 10:45
Are you doing that in your business before you onboard them as a client or is that once you’ve onboard them

Daniel Tolson 10:51
before I on board so you know what you’re dealing with? Because if I try to solve them the training, and I don’t know what their problem is like, give me a pill that I don’t Take the pill, yeah, doesn’t work. So what you really should do an effective examination in you have to develop well thought out questions so that when the client comes in, you can ask them good questions. And we’re going to talk about this about thinking broad with the questions and then narrowing it right down. Once you get the take the diagnostic, you then have to have a look at it. And then you have to go through the diagnostic with your client. And use we say, Rob, based on these questions here, your level of emotional intelligence comes in at 85 points. You know, this is the average of the population. But let’s figure out why it’s only 95 and not at 95. And then you need to have a discussion with the client. What this does is that engages the client into the sales process, because selling is not telling if I sit here and I tell you rob, that your emotional intelligence is low. All of a sudden your self esteem drops and you feel like you’re back in the classroom

Robert Brus 11:56
and your last report. Most importantly, now report if you haven’t seen The video on rapport By the way, just have a little look around. He will just whether they were like they usually on the side over there somewhere.

Daniel Tolson 12:05
Yeah. So once you do that you then only once you’ve done an effective examination, once you’ve run a diagnostic only then with the customers permission is to then offer a prescription, which is always your course, which is always your product or your service. But if they don’t fit in those categories, refer them out to somebody else. So think about your doctor. You go and see the general practitioner me says you’ve got some signs and symptoms of fever. However, I’m not sure what’s wrong with you. He sends you out or she sends you out for blood test. The blood test results come back and he says based on this, it looks like you got salmonella salmonella poisoning. But I’m not a specialist here. So because you’re important. I’m going to send you out to the specialist Is that okay? Yeah. explosiveness Yeah, so premium non Macquarie never knowingly do harm. If you can help the customer help them if you can’t refer him Yeah, beautifully said beautifully. Three steps, examination, examination, diagnostic and prescription

Robert Brus 13:04
take me from take I love the I love the big to small analogy I really, that that’s how I’ve tackled a lot of problems in in my life actually. And sometimes problems in your personal life in your love life in your business seem so overwhelming. And sometimes things feel overwhelming to. And I do know from hiring plenty of sales people and not just in my own business, but working as a sales person in other people’s businesses. Sometimes it can be like an overwhelming and a very emotional experience when you first start. And that’s because you’re learning the product. You haven’t really got buy into it. Yeah, you’re not sure if this is the right place. I’m not sure if I like that boss or that guy or that person. I’m not sure if I like these customers. So I’ve just tackled things in life to go. Alright, here’s the big picture. Here’s where you’re at. And I like to break these things down and go big to small, big, small, big, small and then get eventually I get To a place where unable to handle those things, and I can, I can concentrate on the things that I can control. Because the vast majority of what I go from being too small, all the things in the big bit out here is the bit in the middle. I can’t control I can’t control these things. So give us an example because you got an interesting background where you started off from a big to small problem in in a retail environment. Actually, let’s give it some context. So for 17 years of family and a pawn shop, not the kind of Pawn Shop you’re thinking about this is YouTube, not where you’re thinking about going to so let’s just give that some context. So a pawnbroking business

Daniel Tolson 14:38
is a place where you trade secondhand goods, but you also lend money. So what happens is when you come into the pawn shop, people walk into the door. And what you have to do is you have to guide them through the experience, it’s if it’s their first time, they don’t know what to do. So the buying experience for anybody should be very pleasurable experience and especially in the porn industry, pawn broking industry It should be very pleasurable experience. Yeah. So the best way to ask questions is start with the general. And then move down to the specific start with open ended questions, and then bring them down to closed questions. So when somebody would walk into the pawn shop, the first thing we would ask them is something very general, how may I assist you? And what happens is, it’s so general that they can answer in any way shape or form. And that’s the first question. Once you start the conversation, you can then ask them the next question. Are you thinking of borrowing money? Or are you thinking of selling your items? And they will respond to so you stepping them through, but it’s also a very logical process. And what we’ve learned through that professional selling is if you ask the right question at the wrong time, you kill the sale. Yeah. So you got to think through this. So the first question is, hi, how may I assist you? The second one is would you like to borrow or Today, we would then ask them, What do you have for collateral? And that would say, Well, I have this watch, or I have this sound system, or I have this block of gold, which was quite a common thing. Once we discovered the collateral, we asked them, How much would you like to borrow? Because we can assume how much people want what they want. But when we ask them, they actually feel that they’re in control the process. So how much would you like to borrow? How much would you like to make? Once we discover that we can ask them another question? How long would you like to borrow the money for? And then we can repeat it back to them. So you’re here today, and you’d like to have a line? Is that correct? Yep. And what you’ve got for collateral is you called wash. And you would like to borrow $5,000 for the next 30 days. Is that correct? Yeah. And when the client says yes, you have agreement, and you’ve discovered what they want

Robert Brus 16:54
clarity, it’s really clear as what’s clear for them to

Daniel Tolson 16:57
and it’s very simple, but you have to think through Most unprofessional salespeople just make it up is like hey can I make How you doing on you gotta go watch obviously want to sell it um what would I want to sell that watch? Yeah yeah my grandfather got to me kind of shoot I’m just in here looking around and what happens is if you ask these questions in the wrong order and sequence it will kill the sound because if you’re going to specific that’s a threat to them and do I really want to give away that information right now? So go from broad to specific from the open to the closed and it creates a very nice buying experience.

Robert Brus 17:32
Yes that I went I was getting ready to set up all the equipment and I was ironing a shirt in the afternoon for preparing to do these these videos that we’re shooting today. I looked and I thought Daniel has all of these ties I need some I need some new ties and I’ve kind of looking for an excuse the up the shops anyway and get a coffee right. So I went up. I went up to the show any excuse to get out of doing what I should be doing. I went up to to the shops and I went in I found some shirts, I found some ties and I found what I needed in the shop that I wanted to go in. So, and I thought I didn’t have a white shirt. I need a new white shirt because a male white shirt doesn’t last more than about two or three months because it gets all stained right and you spill your food on the coffee on it stopped wearing a bib. I know. Yeah, I definitely do. So I’ve gone into the shop that I was in originally, they didn’t have any white shirts that I liked. I wanted something that had a bit of texture on it something that was a bit slim fit. They just didn’t have what I want. So I took my little goodie bag of goodies that I had with the competitors logos on it. And I went to the competitive shop just around literally like 30 metres away. And I went in there and I started looking and always looking at the ties and I had a bag full of ties and a bag full of other stuff and it was there to look at a white shirt. And the girl comes over to me and she says she didn’t say hi how can I help you? She didn’t go through any of those things that you did there. The first thing out of her mouth was are you Ty shopping today are you I was standing there on the shelf directly on the shelf directly in front of me was was like a little square thing. And it had like four four by four ties in it. And I was standing there but directly underneath it was a white shirt. And I was standing there looking at the shirts like that and she was over my shoulder and she said all Are you tired shopping today? Maybe I can help you What have you got? And I thought that was really, really strange. I’ve never had a shop assistant say something like that to me. And normally the ladies that work in those stores in menswear stores are super, super

Daniel Tolson 19:33
helpful.

Robert Brus 19:34
You look great in that and it looks great. And I know that’s what the Nikon if they give you a little bit of attention and they’re always really good looking girls and you buy more stuff when they do that they go to the job and I thought that that was just so far left of centre and I was like not I want any more thoughts of it a whole bag full of it all. Okay, just let me know if you need a hand. So we have just completely missed the mark. What

Daniel Tolson 19:56
happened is Rob and he spoke about it in the episode before Is that puts you into the fight flight or freeze response and what you want to do as soon as you hear that, because it mismatches you. You want about huh?

Robert Brus 20:08
Well, I froze first and I went, and I actually stuff I feel myself screw my face up going. Because I wasn’t facing her. I couldn’t see I was like, What? Why would I be? No, I’ve got a bag full of toys look. Oh, well, if you need a hand, let me know. It’s like, it’s a really weird experiences totally, totally missed the mark. Not I’m not a professional salesperson at all. You got to think through this.

Daniel Tolson 20:31
Yeah. You got to think it through an old professionals think it through. If you’re going to have a nose job done by the local rhinoplasty. You’d expect that you think through the plastic, you have to do a consultation with you. Yeah, he would do an examination. He would do a diagnostic and only then he would do a prescription.

Robert Brus 20:50
You know, the really interesting thing is when you don’t think that through and you don’t go through the process that you just described is that in the shop before I spent 200 box. It’s not a lot of money. It’s like a couple hundred bucks, right? And I needed new clothes. So sort of all right. But I said to myself, I won’t spend today any more than $500. So I still had $300 spent. And and the thing is because she never thought it through and she never followed the process, she missed out on potentially $300 worth of sales. And I had some nice stuff in there. And we’re at the change of seasons now I probably could have bought some casual clothes, a new pair of jeans, my jeans rip the other day and then some new jeans that she had said, Oh, what are you looking for today? Well, actually, that’s that’s the big question. I’ll see if I had to set all a white shirt when she said Well, look, here’s one here, here and here. Which one do you like? Let’s try that one on what size? Are you 42 come up there. I would have I would have bought a white shirt. Do you need anything else? Maybe you need some pants? You need some jeans? Let me get this big, too small. She just totally missed the mark and I had a pocket full of money that I was willing to spend. But she’ll never know that she missed it.

Daniel Tolson 21:55
Exactly. So a good question at the wrong time kills the sale title in custody. Is can do three things with the money they can buy from you. They can buy from your competition, or they can decide to keep it in their pocket and not spend at all.

Robert Brus 22:09
Anything or any things.

Daniel Tolson 22:10
And 96% of customers will leave your business, whether it be online or physical. And they won’t tell you why they didn’t buy it, only 4% of the customers will ever tell you. And what we have to do in any type of business is we have to understand the reasons why our customers buy. And we also have to understand the reasons why our customer didn’t buy. And those ones who didn’t buy, we have to make sure we get the feedback. So we don’t repeat those same mistakes. So your biggest source of customers are your non customers. Yeah, 90% of the people who could buy from you and your products and your services don’t buy from you. So once you understand why people don’t buy, then you can make adjustments to what you do. But in this example, asking a good question at the wrong time kills the sound. Absolutely, absolutely.

Robert Brus 22:57
And I’ll put it to you that as a professional sales person watching these videos you’ve probably had similar experiences to us and what we’re describing here and I don’t know about you but for me personally it’s really cringe when somebody does a sales process wrong it’s like

Daniel Tolson 23:13
you’re looking like Montgomery burns

Robert Brus 23:15
well I screwed my face up but this woman done what was

alright that’s a that’s enough of that that’s enough of bashing the retail sales people here in this in this outline show you guys do really well you guys and girls. But maybe there’s some things to learn from the wind sales now. programme here. Remember your we’re here for you. We’re here to show you and share our lifetime of experience in selling and we want you to take these things and apply them to your business. And if you just apply one or two of these things to your business incrementally, you will You win more sales that lady that we were just talking about, she would have won potentially 300 bucks off me but she will never know why she didn’t win that sale because I know for a fact that somebody of that level wouldn’t be watching something like this. Because if she was watching something like this, she definitely

Daniel Tolson 24:16
wouldn’t have made those mistakes. This show is not lose sales now.

It’s when sales now that should be my next book, maybe lose sales. Now he’s had he’s

had not two wins. I’ve had to lose customers and alienate people. Yeah,

Robert Brus 24:28
absolutely. And I’m sure we’ve all been a victim of something like that as well. All right. Moving on. From there, we’ve got Well, let me give you a quote. Let me give you a quote it me, come on you

Daniel Tolson 24:39
ready for the gut. There’s an old Chinese proverb and it says the finest ink will last longer than the fondest memory. Now, I love it. And as we spoke before, is what happens is when you’re in a sales presentation, there’s a lot going on there is you’re calibrating. You’re looking at your customer, you’re listening to what they’re saying. You’re listening Looking at them for buying signals, you’ve got emotions rising up and falling down as you’re going through. And there’s a lot going on. And what we’ve discovered is that if you’re talking to your customer, and you’re not taking notes, what the customer said to you will disappear out of your mind after 10 minutes really quickly, and you will totally forget. So that Chinese proverb is very important. So the finest ink or last longer than the fondest memory. And so what it means to you is that whenever you’re in a sales presentation, you need to have a pen and write down what your client is saying. Don’t paraphrase it. You have to write down word for word, what they’re saying. And this is called a psycho neuro motor activity. And as you’re sitting in front of your client, or you’re standing there next to a client, and you’re taking notes, what starts to happen at subconscious level with your customer. They say, Oh my gosh, I must be so important because this person is taking nuts. Last. I’m talking and they’re listening. And what you’ll find is that when you’re writing notes, your mouth is closed in your ears and your mind open.

Robert Brus 26:11
Let me ask you this. How long you been married for? I’m not married. You tried that? It didn’t work. I tried it

Daniel Tolson 26:16
didn’t work. Okay, what did you do the second time?

Robert Brus 26:19
We’ve been together now for 14 years, 14 years.

Daniel Tolson 26:22
Over the past 14 years your partner How many times did she take out the pen? and write down word for word what you’re saying?

Robert Brus 26:32
Sorry, Susie. Never. Because knit My wife has never done that. No, never

Daniel Tolson 26:36
know. So what happened that I can recall anyway, I can’t recall. So what happens is, is that when you’re sitting in front of your customer, and you take out your pen, and you start to write down word for word, what they’re saying they feel important, because in most people’s lives, nobody ever takes notes about what they’re saying. And it causes their self esteem, to rise. Good Report Builder. It is The more important that you make somebody feel about themselves, the more that will want to buy from you. And this could just be one strategy that you use that your competitors are using. In my business, when I’m working with my clients, I have pages of notes. And what happens is when I read these pages and notes back to them, they’re in shock. And they say, I can’t believe that I said that. So one of my clients in a sales process, in a good sales process, you as the salesperson should ask good questions for about 20% of the time, and you should listen to the responses about 80% of the talk. So all right, word for word notes. And then when the customer has finished speaking, I will say Mr. Customer, could I just repeat back to you what you told me? And they say, absolutely. And then I say look, I’ve got about 10 pages of notes here. And they look at you and they say I spoke that much. You say absolutely. So let me feed this back to you. And as you start to fade it back, I feel very important. And then you can look back around and say, you know, Rob, the moment ago, you said you’d share a life experience of selling. What did you mean by that? And the client goes, That’s exactly what I said. And then they elaborate in the client starts to talk.

Robert Brus 28:22
So that’s not paraphrasing what I said. That’s exactly what I said. Right? That’s what

Daniel Tolson 28:25
you mean by don’t paraphrase it, don’t paraphrase it because he you said to me share our life time experience of selling.

Robert Brus 28:33
That’s exactly what I said.

Daniel Tolson 28:34
Yeah, yeah. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to write down word for word, and then we move into more in LP. And we call this quantum linguistics. So I want you to listen to linguistics. This is funky stuff is learning. Online, this guy. That thing that teacher every time you teach it, you learn it for a second time. Yeah. So the fastest way for you to learn these strategies from this channel is to quickly teach it to somebody else. So when you to listen to the deficiency in the rule is no more paraphrasing. So Rob, where he were talking your you want to have a sales training and you tell me this, this, this is your line iRobot by July to achieve you, I would like to

Robert Brus 29:16
double my income in the next 90 days.

Daniel Tolson 29:20
So Rob, you’re telling me you want to make more money? None. And

Robert Brus 29:24
I said you I want to double my income in the next 90 days.

Daniel Tolson 29:27
Yeah. So you want to make more money?

Robert Brus 29:30
Yeah, yeah.

But I want to double my income in the next 90 days. So you want to make more money? Yes.

Daniel Tolson 29:37
What’s happening here is I’m actually mismatching his language

Robert Brus 29:40
and it makes it really awkward. Even just

Daniel Tolson 29:43
slow down the face and the lips guy.

Robert Brus 29:45
Yeah, but that’s real folks. That’s real.

Daniel Tolson 29:48
So what happens is when you paraphrase, you’re taking that person’s words out of context. And so let’s go again one more time that our show you what quantum linguistic Looks like and make sure you watch Rob.

So ask me the question. So what would you like to achieve?

Robert Brus 30:08
I’d like to double my income in the next 90 days. Okay,

Daniel Tolson 30:11
excellent. So, Rob, what you’d like to do here is you’d like to double your income in the next 90 days. Is that correct?

Robert Brus 30:17
Yeah, absolutely. It just goes straight in. There’s no, it’s like when you say it the other way, it’s like it goes. But when he sees it, and I think maybe my body language is such that I wear my heart on my sleeve a little bit, you can see it in my face, and you can read it really easily. But that really does feel like I just go straight through like no, no resistance there at all. But when you change my words around like that, definitely, even in a scenario like this, where were mates and you standing right next to me doing some training, I still feel the resistance when you change it, you do paraphrase it.

Daniel Tolson 30:51
And did you notice how Rob eventually just said yes. If we would have continued the sales conversation at the end of he would have said,

Robert Brus 30:58
think about it. Think about it. Think about it. Which means you will never see me again. I like you, but you annoyed me a little bit because you paraphrase me because you mismatch me.

Daniel Tolson 31:05
Yeah. Took my words out of context. I did not say that. Yeah, but remember, most people don’t want to get into an argument. Yeah, I’ll smile and they’ll carry on and then they’ll say, I need to think about it. Yeah. So we’re going to show you two more examples. And this is something that if you practice immediately, you can double your results in the next 24 hours. So Rob, this is your lines Marla, and this is going to be my line. So why do you want to double your income in the next 90 days?

Robert Brus 31:34
Because I want to ensure that my family are protected.

Daniel Tolson 31:37
Okay, excellent. So you don’t want to worry about your family.

Robert Brus 31:41
Not I’m worried about my family. I just want to make sure my family are protected.

Daniel Tolson 31:44
I get it you don’t want to worry about

Robert Brus 31:47
none. I want to make sure that my family protected. You said you want to make more money

Daniel Tolson 31:51
so you don’t have to worry about you think

Robert Brus 31:54
it’s funny. I can not make a face you won’t hit me. You know, you’re gonna punch me now. Cut lucky now. We’re doing it and we’re highlighting it. I can, it’s like, really you can see the redness in here. It’s hypothermic in my upper lip in my forehead and stuff like that. No, man, that’s not what I’m saying. Yeah, and even when we’re just mucking around like that role playing it a little bit. Yeah, it’s the resistance because they’re not your words.

Daniel Tolson 32:14
Yeah. Excellent. Third one, you’re learning a bit. So this is your life. So why do you want to learn to double your sales in the next 90 days? Why do you want to ensure your family are protected?

Robert Brus 32:26
Because I don’t want to struggle anymore.

Daniel Tolson 32:29
I get it. You want things to be easier?

Robert Brus 32:32
Now things are pretty easy already. I don’t want I just don’t want to struggle anymore. Okay, so

Daniel Tolson 32:36
you want let’s you want it you want the speakeasy wrong? Yeah, I want it to be

you want the sales process to be easy?

Robert Brus 32:45
Yeah. Isn’t it awkward? Yeah, it is. Even in a role play. Like if you if you role play it properly. It really is awkward.

Daniel Tolson 32:53
This is the fastest way to lose rapport into wiling and I customers. And once you do this, you can never go back.

Robert Brus 33:00
It was funny. It’s a little bit like that lady who asked me if I was Ty shopping. Are you? Are you shopping for tires? That was a mismatch in my in my mind because I’m looking for a white shirt, and she’s asking me about tires. That’s like saying, here’s here’s your whiskey but I don’t like whiskey I asked for beer.

Daniel Tolson 33:17
What? Alcohol? Yeah, it’s like,

Robert Brus 33:20
such a mismatch of things and I just have a drink, you know, whatever. But I like that That’s awful. That’s like rocket fuel.

Daniel Tolson 33:28
It’s a funny thing that happens to so this is quantum linguistics. It comes from NLP, it’s actually a master level, your Linguistic Programming strategy rough. So if you use this today, you will get better results before tomorrow. Absolutely guaranteed. So to prove it, for the people who are very sceptical and data, we want to prove this to you but you have to pick up the pen and you have to play the game. So Rob, pick up your pen. This is how important to us. Each of us understand the same words. time, money isles car. But each of these words have a different meaning to us, we have our own internal representation for what these words mean to us. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to write down what sales means to us. So I want you to write down what does sound mean to you and give me one compelling sentence of what sales means to you. What you’re going to do is write down on your bit of paper, what sales means to you. What is your definition of sales? What does it mean to you? And I’m going to write mine down.

Okay, good.

Yeah. You didn’t copy mom?

Robert Brus 34:44
No, I didn’t know I can’t read your writing. Anyway, looks like chicken scratch here. And

Daniel Tolson 34:47
this is the doctor,

the doctor of selling and you’ve got your definition. So Rob, what is your definition of sales,

Robert Brus 34:54
by definition of sales is it equals more business and more business? equals more freedom. And when I have more freedom or more likely to achieve my goals,

Daniel Tolson 35:05
oh my gosh, I wrote down something totally different.

Well, I write down here sales is a transfer of enthusiasm. So if Rob and I both talking about selling, what it means to me is something totally different. I’m talking about a transfer of enthusiasm. We’re using the same word, but we have totally different meanings for Yeah,

Robert Brus 35:32
so yours completely different connotation, but yours was more more business equals more freedom, which equals my goals.

Daniel Tolson 35:38
So what we have to do is we have to ask questions to our clients. So what

Robert Brus 35:42
does selling mean to you? We have selling means more business and when I have more business, I have more prosperity.

Daniel Tolson 35:47
Selling doesn’t mean that selling is a transfer of enthusiasm.

Robert Brus 35:51
That’s not what it means to me. But this

Daniel Tolson 35:53
is the definition Mia and then what happens is you start to argue and there is no place for being argumentative. Absolutely not that your role is to be agreeable, and learn about the clients model of the world. Once you do that, you can double, triple and quadruple your sales absolutely guaranteed.

Robert Brus 36:10
One of the really fun things that has happened to me over the years is I’ve had to in digital marketing, and particularly when you’re selling a website for the digital marketers out there and YT folks out there watching these videos, you’ve probably been in this circumstance, and I’m not sure what sort of selling experience that you’ve had. But every now and then I found myself in a boardroom with half a dozen people. And sometimes it’s like the boss, the CEO, the CFO, the CIO, because they always bring new IT person in there and it becomes a PR person and a marketing person, they usually the sort of the five people and sometimes you will meet with those people individually on the way to winning some business. And one of the fun things that I really like to do in those circumstances is to ask questions that makes them ask questions of each other. And then I just sit there Listen, because I have a plan. But I really don’t know what’s going on inside of that business or with those folks that are in there, I just don’t know, there’s no way to know there’s no possible way to know you can do as much homework as you want. But if you can learn to ask really clever questions that get those people in the room talking to each other, you can just sit there and go, aha, I didn’t know that I didn’t, I didn’t know that I didn’t know that. And then those those things there, you can then reflect back to them. And that’s how I’m going to solve that problem. That’s how this product will solve that. That’s, that’s how this will fix that challenge that you’ve had in that business. And it’s been a really fun thing to do. So, once again, a little, little bit of my anecdotal experience that maybe you can take and apply to your business to win some more cells now.

Daniel Tolson 37:45
And remember, the person who asked questions is in control. So, Rob, where’d you grow?

Robert Brus 37:50
up? I grew up in Bassil messy. Okay, and

Daniel Tolson 37:53
what year did you leave school

Robert Brus 37:55
1993 and after you left school, Don’t ask me too many questions. Back then what did you do after you left school? I joined the Navy.

Daniel Tolson 38:04
See, the person who asked questions is in control. Absolutely. And from a very young age, when somebody asks a question, we always responded stimulus response. So as the salesperson you think through your questions in advance, yep. And you write them down, word for word, very important, then you practice them. And then just like a professional actor, you read those lines as if it’s the first time you’ve ever read them. And then the person who you speak with ponders that question. So you’re in control, you’re causing them to think in a certain direction. And there’s two directions that we have to get our clients to thinking when they’re buying things. So you people buy for emotional reasons. All decisions are emotional decisions. So what we’re going to learn is we have to understand the emotional reasons why people buy Yeah, absolutely. Talk about that. Yeah, absolutely telling control. I’m still asking you the question. When you get your client to emotional lies the problem, what happens is you get incredible leverage. Because people are driven by predominantly two emotions. One is fear, and the other one is desire. And what we’ve learned from psychology is that the motivation force of fear is two and a half times more powerful than the motivating force of desire. So people fear things like fear of ridicule, fear of embarrassment, fear of loss, fear of rejection. And what happens is people will take action because they want to avoid that Feat. So fear as a motivator is two and a half times more powerful than desire.

Robert Brus 39:41
What are the really great things that I’ve learned from our in class in the last couple of months since his new book came out? And if you haven’t seen that book, it’s called flip the script. And again, the author’s name is Oren class he uses I’ve always known fear as a motivator. I’ve always been I’ve never for some reason that vernacular has never work for me. And I think maybe in my, in my life that word fear is something that I’ve had to confront a lot. Patrick confronted in business and family and a job and just what I’ve done for a living in the military is scary. Sometimes they’re jumping out of aeroplanes at nighttime and doing that sort of thing. Is it so? I’ve never really been, I don’t think I’ve ever been motivated by fear I certainly have. But certainly those words and not something that ever worked. And one of the ways that orange describes it, which really, for some reason resonated with me. I don’t know why sometimes people say things that just connects with my language. He says Winter is coming. And for me, I don’t know why that works. But for me, it’s like if you can show your prospect that winter is coming. Then they will. So whatever that looks like in in my business winter, winter is not coming. Winter is

here.

Are you sick of spending money on Facebook ads? Are you sick of spending money on Google ads and not getting a return? And they’re like, yeah, so I’m dying here. Yeah, I’m dying here. So they’re sick of doing that. So winter is not coming winter is actually here. And if you don’t do something about it, you’re not going to have more inbound leads, you’re not going to have any sales, your businesses going to die on the line. How are you going to feel about that? That’s the sort of the worst case scenario. But I love the idea of winter is coming because it’s a it’s a fee based thing. But it’s not. It’s not like, if you don’t do this, you’re going to die. That’s sort of we all know that everything is cyclic and winter generally is a time of things dying and being getting ready to be rebirth. Is that going to be you Do you want to die in the winter? You want to be bad like that?

Daniel Tolson 41:46
We have to tap into those emotions.

Robert Brus 41:48
Because I think that’s what it is. That’s what connects with me. As much as it taps into whose

Daniel Tolson 41:53
things are logical. And we know we’re not making enough sales. We know it’s not converting but we often Ignore the emotion. So when you tie the two together, you’re running out of leads. You’re running out of time. winter’s coming. Are you gonna make enough money to pay the

Robert Brus 42:10
mortgage? Oh my god, you just painting such a nuclear winter picture for me that I must do something about this, you’re going to be able to put fuel in the

Daniel Tolson 42:18
tank of your car. Yeah. I you’re going to be able to afford your children’s school fees. Nobody wants to live like that. But we’ve got to get our clients to feel it.

Robert Brus 42:27
What happens if the client is in a good position? winter could still be coming, right? Absolutely.

Daniel Tolson 42:32
Well, they’re the people who are motivated by design. So this is where we get clear on vision. And there’s a great formula called glaciers formula. We have to understand the level of dissatisfaction. If somebody is not fed up with their current licence, they won’t do anything. So your job is to raise that level of dissatisfaction. And what you do is you ask people, Where does it hurt? It hurts my hip pocket. I’ve got no money. I have to tell them why is to my pocket. About how much money is going down to the pawnbroker to hock off my kids play stations. And so what you gotta do, you gotta find that word, and you got to put salt in it, and you got to find where that Thorn is, and you gotta start to twist it around. So, in, in physics, we say nothing happens until somebody moves until something moves. So if this person doesn’t feel enough time, they’re not going to change. So you have to raise that level of paint.

Robert Brus 43:24
And is that what is that what happens when people are doing well in their business is then you you look for the pain, like how could it be better? And are your salespeople underperforming? What are your targets? Are you hitting those targets? Well, someone’s doing really well. They don’t really motivated by fear. They’re motivated by better results, right?

Daniel Tolson 43:43
But what they get frustrated with is they know they could be doing so much better. Yes, like you may be earning $10 million a year and good stuff, but they know there’s a $20 million earner inside of

Robert Brus 43:53
yells never met anybody that’s earning a huge amount of money that doesn’t want to anymore

Daniel Tolson 43:56
because 84% of the population feel that there are writing it levels Babylon the potential Yes, yeah. But it may not be a massive push for them. So what you do is you get clarity on the vision, in, in all of my research going back 30 years I’ve looked at this stuff is that only 3% of the population have please set goals. So for those people who are very goal oriented, you talk about their vision, and you get them excited about the vision, what happens is the eyes open up, they get excited, they start to move really fast when she’s talking about what they want. And the reality is, is that 85% of our motivation comes from the anticipation of achieving a goal. But only 3% of the population are clear on what they want. Yeah, the other people don’t know what they want. So with those people who are goal oriented, you talk about that vision and how good it’s going to feel to have that and what they’re going to do and how it’s going to launch and what they’re going to do next. And you pump them up. And that will go on a roll now Talk Talk, talk about what they want, and they’ll feel so relevant, that they’ll be like, what do you got for me? How can you Help me get there faster, how can you make it easier? What’s a better way to get there? And that will listen. And this is the importance you’ve got. You’ve got your fears, you got your frustrations, you’ve got your dissatisfactions, you have your wants, your aspirations, you’ve got your vision. And then what your job is, is after this boost, we’re only discovering what the problem is, is then you offer them a very easy solution. The next step, and this is where a lot of sales people get it wrong, is they’re looking to go from Earth to the Moon. Yeah. Or you’ve got to help them to do is to close the gap by one small step. And this stage is we’re just emotional licencing what they want. So we can help them leverage their drive. And if they desire for their, what they go increases, their resistance to change will lower and they’ll open up like a rose. And they’ll say, Tell me

Robert Brus 45:52
what you’ve got. Beautiful, beautifully, beautifully said and that’s that’s the correct way to diagnose what Is that they need it’s not offering a solution before you know

Daniel Tolson 46:03
what’s going on. You’ve got to know and you’ve got to get them to emotionalism. Nothing happens until something moves. in sales. We say nothing happens until somebody cries, and they’re going to cry and pain. But you can also cry and pleasure enjoy her as well join me. Absolutely. So this is delicious formula. And your job is to sell like a doctor. Remember, prescription before diagnosis is malpractice. And your job is to have an examination. Your job is to create a diagnostic so you can understand the client’s position and only then should you give the prescription and if you do that,

Robert Brus 46:42
you will win more sales than you ever thought possible. Beautiful, beautifully said my thank you so much for sure. That’s great. Isn’t that’s very fun. If you like what you’re hearing Ladies and gentlemen, make sure you hit that subscribe button right there. Ring the bell. And don’t forget to give us a thumbs up if you’re liking what you hear and don’t forget to comment as well both Daniel and I will reply to your comments right here in YouTube. And if you want to drop us an email, you can definitely do that. And I encourage you to visit the link in the show notes below as well because we got a whole lot of goodies there for you, which is kind of cool.

Daniel Tolson 47:11
What we’re going to put there is the sales skills test. The sales skills test up Should we tell them about this on the next video,

Robert Brus 47:20
maybe the next video which is just there, so why don’t you pop on over to that next video.